Battle-lines drawn on the Arjun tank: Armed Forces prefer Russian armour - Broadsword by Ajai Shukla - Strategy. Economics. Defence.

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Friday 18 April 2008

Battle-lines drawn on the Arjun tank: Armed Forces prefer Russian armour

(Photographs: by Ajai Shukla: An Arjun MBT goes through its paces on the test track at the Central Vehicles Research and Development Establishment, or CVRDE, at Avadi, Chennai)

by Ajai Shukla
(Business Standard: 19th April 2008)

The battle-lines have been drawn. At stake is the future of one of India’s most prestigious defence products: the Arjun main battle tank (MBT). In its 29th report, which was tabled in parliament yesterday, Parliament’s Standing Committee on Defence writes that it was “startled” to be told that the Arjun tank had performed poorly in winter trials conducted by the army, and that it was miles away from meeting the army’s requirements.

Business Standard has learned from three different members of the Standing Committee on Defence that it is more than “startled”; it is frankly disbelieving of the army’s deposition. In its last annual report for 2007-08, the committee was told by the MoD that the Arjun tank was:

  • “A product unique in its class”, and “an improved system over the T-72.”
  • “Rs 6-8 crores cheaper than its contemporary system in the West”.
  • “Far superior (in firing accuracy) to the other two tanks (T-72 and T-90)”.
  • “Driven for over 60,000 kms and fired more than 8,000 rounds. There was no problem.”

After the army representative slammed the Arjun, the Standing Committee chairman, Balasaheb Vikhe Patil, as well as the Defence Secretary, and several other members agreed that the committee would formulate a clear policy on India’s tank of the future. Underlying this decision is the belief amongst most members of the Standing Committee that the army is biased against the Arjun tank, and in favour of continuing to use Russian T-72 and T-90 tanks. 

There were clear factual inaccuracies in the army’s deposition before the Standing Committee. The most glaring of them is the army’s suggestion that it is carrying out trials on the Arjun’s performance. In fact, the army has already accepted the Arjun for introduction into service, based upon its driving and firing performance over years. After firing trials in summer 2006, the trial report (written by the army) said, “The accuracy and consistency of the Arjun has been proved beyond doubt.”

The ongoing trials in Pokhran that the army is citing are Accelerated Usage cum Reliability Trials (AUCRT). In these, two Arjun tanks were run almost non-stop for 3000 kilometers, not to judge performance, but to evaluate the tank’s requirement of spare parts, fuel and lubricants during its entire service life. In fact, it is the Arjun’s developer, the Central Vehicle R&D Laboratory (CVRDE), Avadi, that has long demanded comparative trials, where the performance of five Arjuns would be gauged against five Russian T-90s and T-72s. The army has consistently sidestepped that invitation.

The army has also testified incorrectly to the Standing Committee about four engine failures during the recent AUCRT. In fact, sources closely associated with the trials say, the problems were with four gearboxes, manufactured by German company, Renk AG. A world leader in transmission systems, Renk representatives are already in Pokhran and Avadi, analysing and resolving the problem.

The army does not mention, but problems were also experienced with four hydro-pneumatic suspension units (HSUs), which leaked after the Arjuns had run 2000 kilometers. But the Arjun’s makers say 2000 kilometers is the service life of the suspension; normally they would have been replaced before the point at which they leaked.

Officers closely associated with the Arjun, as well as several members of the Standing Committee on Defence contrast the army’s approach to the Arjun with the navy’s acceptance of indigenous projects. They say the navy has achieved striking success in building its own warships, by associating itself with the project right from the design stage; warships are accepted into service and many hiccups overcome during their service lives. In contrast, the army is resisting accepting the Arjun until every last hiccup is resolved by the DRDO.

An application to interview the army’s Director General of Mechanised Forces (DGMF) was approved by the MoD eight months ago. However, the DGMF has not granted an interview so far because of “scheduling problems.”


  1. I have been reading about this continued bias of the Indian Army
    towards the Russian tanks.
    I dont quite get the reason behind rejecting the far more superior and
    indigenously built Arjuns.
    I mean what do they get out of it.
    can anyone please point out the reasons.Who all are benefited by taking such decisions??

  2. Shukla ji,
    If Arjun is a potential tank and as per the standing comittee report then why not MOD force the Army to go with Arjun?

    This seems like the people in the army are frightened abt looking perks if they go with the local made tank.

    We tax payers are paying this damn money for he nations pride and safety.These army people are missusing our tax payers money.

  3. Shukla Ji, The only silver lining in all this cloud of dust are the beautiful images of Arjun. Like its mythical predecessor I think Arjun has one shot remaining to hit the eye or its history. I hope CVRDE realizes that all its efforts are about to go down the drain unless they give a point by point rebuttal of the Army half truths and challenge the Indian Army for a duel in Pokharan with T90 and T72S in front of full media glare.

  4. Please post more images of Arjun and also one of the images link doesn't work. Pl. fix it and if possible please post some images of Arjun firing its 125 mm "bow"

  5. Its a relief that the commitee is seeing both sides of the picture and not just kowtowing the army line!This has dragged on for such a long time now and its in nations best interest that it should be solved once and for all.

    Nice article Shukla Ji and good series.Waiting for the next part.

  6. let the T90 and T72 also run 3000 kms each non stop and all engine and transmission related problems will show up which have been brushed so far. Also lets see how much time it takes to change a T90 engine, we already know that it takes 40 mins to change the arjun engine. The Indian Army chief should speak out now or resign. Shukla Ji, Please forward him, our Hon. Defence minister and members of the Parliamentary standing committee on defence links to this blog and ask the chief to answer the questions that have been raised. The credibility of the Office of the Army chief of the Indian Army is at stake here. He can hide behind the Official Secrets Act (OSA) or be bold enough to post a point by point rebuttal of the allegations being made to his office. The choice is his entirely but please let him know that the tax payers are dying to know just "WHY, JUST WHY IS ARJUN BEING SHOWN IN POOR LIGHT ?" IF ARJUN IS SUCH A WORTHLESS TANK (The tank performed poorly et al.), LETS JUNK IT NOW AND SAVE SOME TAX PAYERS MONEY." I know writing in caps is equivalent to shouting but thats exactly what I'm doing in the hope that our voices to save indigenous tank development reaches the power corridors of Delhi.

  7. Once it is accepted that the army wilfully gave false evidence to the committee , the next thing to do would be consider the possibility of sabotage in case of some of the problems that did occur with the tank.

  8. This Army is really falling apart:
    "Gen goes on ‘protest’ leave":

  9. Mr. Shukla, this series of articles are deserving of no less than the top awards in investigative and quality journalism. They bring a "flood" of highly informed and detailed articles, which cleanse the brainwash of, "Arjun tanked failed" that other journalists have "dished" over the past few years.

    It is sincerely hoped that this article has a definite impact on the likely corruption in the Army.

    I think these articles finally lay to rest an era of "moribund" and "hazy" articles from ToI, the Indian Express etc. A new era in truly professional defence journalism may be said to have begun with Mr. Shiv Aroor's fantastic ride of the Arjun tank, and your excellent "hard-hitting" indictment of the Indian Army's refusal to accept the Arjun.

    From your article, it is now clear that Deepak Kapoor-led Army may be very corrupt and short-sighted. It is hoped that the Indian jawan is not sacrificed at the cost of not inducting a clearly superior Arjun, in favour of Russian tanks, "greased" with bribes.

    However, I am not sure what impact this story will have through the medium of Business Standard (with all due respect), as its not related to business. If NDTV can carry this story, then I think a much greater impact will be felt.

    Anyway, Business Standard has now got the distinction of being India's first professional Defence News and Analysis daily, akin to Jane's Defence.

    Thank you sir.

  10. It is really poor reading here that Army is looked up like a bunch of corrupt BAFOONS, who fall for anything Lolita. Whereas the DRDO is not to be touched on, the nationalistic color is so much. Is it coz it is Brahmin establishment, whereas Army is of more Bahujan stock?

    I think it is time that the DRDO worshipers start realising the day in and day out sacrifices Army makes in safegaurding the nation. When they makes dicision that depends on their survival in battlefield, you can hardly makes moticves, but then again we are looking at fat cows who took 35 years and still tweaking "Scientist" from the comfort of their "Lab".

  11. Well...well..and we Indians get angry when foreigners ask us about the caste problem!!

  12. Good people in the army far out number the corrupt ones..but to say corruption doesnt exist or that it cannot have a bearing on the decisions that the army takes sometimes is too rich an idea!

  13. Not a casteist twist to the debate. Excellent ! The scientists who evaluated the tanks are also out in the field and they are out in the field every time an agni, a prithvi, a Dhanush ,an AAD or a nag is test fired. Yes, some of them are only in the lab and in clean rooms maintained at 18 deg. C/ 65 % relative humidity if I may add because you don't assemble dust/static sensitive electronic components in Pokharan desert before they are field ruggedized. And o btw, the Tin can designers also do the same in case you are wondering, their job becomes slightly easier because their field locations are at sub zero anyways

  14. And just to add the Arjun has a tropicalized air conditioner, T90 doesn't and the army now wants to procure a/cs at additional cost for the T90 not to keep the tank crew comfortable but to keep the electronics for Fire control from frying up. Shukla ji, pl. correct me if I'm wrong !

  15. Anon at 19 April 2008 11:26: Man, you should be a politician, giving a casteist twist to the problem. You will get so many votes. Please consider yourself for General Election-2009. Some of the parties will be so eager to give you a ticket.
    Speaking of other issues, I really sympathize with the T90 tank crew who sweat it out in Pokharan in 60 deg. C inside the tank but I have no sympathy or respect for the army leadership that wants to buy a sub standard product that was not tailor made for this country, meekly accept its deficiencies and shoves it down the throat of its tank crew. This is certainly not leading from the front is it ? Also ask the T90 crew if they are ready to drive around non stop 2000 kms in a T90 with its torsion bar tech and compare that feedback from the driver of arjun who took part in the AUCRT and yet the army chief calls Arjun a "mid-level technology" tank. You can think yourself who is making a Buffoon out of himself !

  16. A tank that has been driven for 60,000 kms in different terrains in development trials didn't report transmission failures earlier, now suddenly the transmission systems are failing. As Shukla Ji points out thats very much possible given the variables involved as cited by him but for the army its a be all end all situation. Interesting....I hope the officer who testified didn't think he was testifying in front of buffoons who will just accept one liners like "This tank has performed very poorly" at face value without giving references to the actual problems

  17. Ajai, I have never been this impressed and angry at the same time by any of your articles.

    Impressed by the thoroughness of your work and the unexpected reaction of the committee. And angry at the morons in the Army who are looking more and more stupid by the minute, but not backing the hell down.

    Will they be shot down by the committee and have this shoved down their throats? I certainly hope so - for it is an above-par machine by all the accounts to date.

    Also - is it too much to hope for a serious dressing down of the people looking to shoot down the Arjun on false pretexes and who hope not to be noticed?

    I am now *really* looking forward to your follow up with any official spokesperson for the Army on this issue - obviously when it does not clash with their (strangely) full schedule.

    Great job, Sir!

  18. It is no surprise why ARmy wants foreign equipment. Opportunities for bribery abound when importing expensive foreign stuff. These sc&mbags have no patriotism, no regard for the lives of jawans, they just want to line their own pockets.

    A nation like China would have placed several of these people in front of firing squad for treason by now.

  19. In relation to my last post...dont get me wrong: there is plenty of corruption and bribery in China, but is tempered by a fierce sense of patriotism. I despise Communist China, but at the same time admire their fierce love for their nation, which we never have. Look at all the protests that Chinese do against Tibet in Western nations! Our people are inferior, this is the sad truth.

  20. ^^
    A friendly advice:Stop!
    You are entering a vicious cycle where you have to continue to give supportive comments to support your earlier commments!And the reasoning gets worser in every turn!

    Lets not give extreme examples like shooting people for treason..that is clearly reserved for the commies.

    It would have been sufficient to point this out that the Chinese have better long term strategic vision regarding advantages of indigenisation.

  21. Ironically every time Arjun's flaws are perfected it becomes a that much capable and combat worthy MBT. What's disturbing is the Army's attitude to kill the project and not even support it piece meal with continued 124 blocks of orders. I surely can't believe that the Arjun is "not even good enough" to replace the vintage Vijyantas in few numbers of 124 multiples (as it is progressively improved and defects ironed out) while the T90 is such an "international capability" tank that can be inducted in thousands !

  22. Indigenous development has to be supported the whole 9 yards by the services, no other alternatives or short cuts to that. The navy with all its support to indigenous development had faced such a hard time in making the Indigenous Aircraft Carrier, because battleship grade steel HY80 was not available locally and russians were playing hard ball, that led to a substantial delay in the plate cutting. Also the marine gas turbine engines that are heart of the ship are american (GE LM-2500) assembled locally. What would happen if they suddenly stop transferring the building blocks. We would be out at the sea with a completed hull but no engine to propel it. We faced a similar situation in 70s when western countries pulled out of our atomic energy projects, now see how the diligence and perseverance of our nuclear scientists and engineers have paid off. Today we have end to end capabilities in PHWR technology with complete understanding of the nuclear fuel cycle. We are today pioneering the Thorium reactor technology that have the potential to end our energy crisis/dependence in perpetuity. This could not have happened if we were to take short cuts. There are no alternatives to supporting local product development, its a tortuous route, but its a ground up process that all the developed countries went through and we would be any exception to that. Other countries will only sell us their do-how they will never tell us their know-how. So even after assembling our own Su-30 we cannot upscale it to an MCA or downscale it to the Tejas, just not possible.

  23. Ref to my blog

    1 I agree with Mr A Shukla issues. Indian Army is facing a crisis in Armoured tanks.

    (a) T 55 have lived its utility with overhauls also over. Inafct they have been overhauled twice.

    (b) The problem of barrel bursting was noticed earlier in T-72 tank. The bursting of barrel in T-72 tanks occurred in barrels of Russian origin as well as of Indian origin.

    (c) Both these tanks have very limited Night Fighting Capability though TISAS are being introduced.

    (d) Engine Overhauled at Avadi are of spurious quality . infact Units feel original Engines from Russia after having done its Km life cycle are still better than OH engines.

    (e) India’s T-90S tanks continue to have problems with their torsion bar suspensions.

    (f) BMP 1 and BMP 2 Overhaul in terms of quality wise is an issues with Mech Fmn

    2 Arjun will never see its induction for following reasons

    (a) There are problems with its electronics. In this case, it's the fire control system.

    (b) The weight of the Arjun Mark I tank has reached 58.5 tons. It was 6.5 tons above the maximum weight contained in General Staff Qualitative Requirements and as much as 18.5 tons over the Army’s desired requirement. Final weight of the tank could exceed 60 tons, when explosive reactive armour is added, as is expected. Excessive weight is one of the drawbacks of the Arjun tank. It will be too heavy to cross many of Inida’s bridges and be able to operate only on national highways. It cannot be lifted by standard Army tank transporters now in use and is also incompatible with present bridge-laying equipment. The Arjun tank is also too wide to use the existing transporters used by the T-72MI tanks. The Indian Army had, therefore, to invest $3.9 million to develop three rail cars to carry the new tank. The railways has classified the new tank as an “over-dimensional consignment” requiring an increase of 150 per cent over normal transportation rates

    ( c) It is also now equipped with an imported German 1,400 HP diesel engine. This gives the tank a maximum speed of 70 km per hour on highways and 40 km per hour off-road. It has a cruising range of 200 to 250 km on its 1,610 litres of fuel.To start with the new engine and its associated transmission were too large for the original engine compartment which had to be modified. Field trials demonstrated that the engine lost 20 to 25 per cent of its power while operating in desert temperatures of 45 to 50 degrees Celsius. This was well above the 10 per cent that the Army expected as normal.

    ( d) The cooling unit experienced sharply rising temperatures during full throttle runs and made excessive demands on the electric system because there was no auxiliary power unit to handle peak demand. A worse problem was the sand blasting effect in the desert, which caused leakage of the coolant and damaged the cooling fan blades. Field trials showed that life of cooling fan blades was only 600 km instead of the declared 4,000 km. Designers tried to rectify the flaws by installing an improved cooling unit on the rear deck. The unit is so bulky that the main gun can no longer fire at zero degrees elevation over the rear pack.

    (e) The Arjun tank uses a hydro-pneumatic suspension system, which has been giving problems. This system required recharging every 300 km in desert and semi-desert conditions. On soft ground it required recharging every 250 km. In the desert heat and dust sealing of fluids and gas malfunctioned causing leakage and requiring more frequent maintenance. Inherent design flaws in the hydro-pneumatic suspension were aggravated by the increase in the tank’s weight, which was above the maximum specified by the Army

    ( f) There are problems with the tank’s bogie wheels as well. These have to be changed every 600 to 1,000 km. Failure rate of the bogie wheels is due to poor quality material, early disintegration of rubber parts and poor bonding of rubber with steel. Aside from the technical failures the induction of the tank in the Army would be costly

    3. The truth of the matter. Can somebody reply to these or even ponder also ?

    ( a) What is the accountability of DRDO officials in charge of this project, in this respect. Has CAG ever conducted CBI raids on their property aspects and Income Tax returns. The money no doubt has gone down the drain.

    ( b) Why nobody is doing required reforms that will be necessary in order to create a defense industry and capability level that matches our international / Russian standards?

    (c) Why are we preventing growing private sector in India’s state-run defence industry ?

    ( d) Why don’t we implement use of modern management tools, to increased focus on performance, to a growing private sector capable of partnering effectively with foreign firms and producing key sub-components

  24. You are skating on thin ice. Calls for CAG audit/ CBI probe can prove counter productive and equally valid for both the sides, why single out DRDO. If the recent case of purchase of utility choppers by the army is anything to go by, this can open a can of worms for the army. The navy never says its products with its JV partner DRDO are perfect but it always hand holds them anyways to progressively improve the product, Why ? Because the navy considers itself an equal partner and not a just a customer (like the army). Also contrast its stance of not accepting the Il-38 SDs/ Talwars/ INS Sinduvijay from the Russians when they are found below par, while the army meekly accepts the T90 (with its TI systems)and then importing TI from Thales at extra cost. Why did they allow the force levels to reduce in the first place ? Why is there no CAG audit there ? Also why did the army kept changing the GSQRs midway knowing fully well that such a move would result in both time and cost overrun, reasons that are now cited to rush forward into importing an equally "substandard system" as the Arjun ?

  25. Realist , your report is almost a verbatim copy of this by Lt. Gen F.S.Lodi.Are you the same person?

    Now that report is from 2001.Lots of water under the bridge since then.Is your report up to date?

  26. Also I guess if it was upto you ,then you would have recommended a piece of c*ap like the Al Khalid..which by the way if you didnt know has nothing got to do with Pakistani development, but is a licensed copy of Chinese type-90

  27. BTW..

    I am Really confused as to whether Lt. Gen. F.S.Lodi a general of the Indian Army or the Terrorist State Pakistan Army?

    Can anyone clarify??

  28. Riaz

    1 The more the armr, the more the wt, more strain on eng, more related defects in suspension and carriage. The fact is DRDO miscalculated all parameters including wt to power ratio which resulted in such a big elephant. Another fact is DRDO did not any original technology development so they rounded up many parts in International Market to make a assembled one.

    2 The truth is they have taken us all for a jolly ride and a big starin on Country economics including the failure to match with Armoured Forces requirement. Lastly don’t sympathies with DRDO by unnecessarily challenging facts of technical data assimilated from various sources by calling the truth seekers as against the nation. Better will be to suggest ideas how to revamp the DRDO to come at par in making a worthwhile tank.

    3 Unless you also had a share of that loot……………… then I can understand your outburst. Blame game apart, do suggest some worthwhile ideas for making our armd forces a more potent one. if you are DRDO chap do suggest how to revamp your own shit than calling others a shit (like a pak gen).

  29. Realist,

    1.So I take it that you DO NOT have any up to date information about the Arjun and is regurgitating reports from 2001.You dont have any idea about what are the problems with the Arjun TODAY and which problems have already been rectified.In case you didnt notice its 2008 now.

    2.Your technical figures are also not beyond examination(although I am inclined to giving you that benefit of doubt).If the army deputation is anything to go by(passing off a transmission failure as engine failure etc.)then the figures could also be dodgy .Also one may argue that the article itself may be a propaganda piece (Pakistani technical prowess anyone?:roll eyes:).In any case even if taken as true those are 2001 I said water under the bridge.

    3.As you called your self a "truth" seeker then why may I ask you havent spent a single world on the FALSIFIED testimony given by the army to the parliament?In fact the WAY you put up your initial post with figures one would have thought that those are the results from the winter trials itself!!Fortunately research proved you are indeed rehasing OLD figures and complaints.

    4. Lastly my sympathies lie with this country and not DRDO or the Army.Suffice to say the truth whenever uncovered will direct my actions against these two entities in future.

    Let the real truth come out , not the false masquerading as reality!

  30. Realist,

    The DRDO may well have fvcked wont be the first! and then it will get its due..but if YOU think the ARMY can get away by lying or that YOU could spread misinformation in the garb of "reality" or "truth" and we will just lap it up ..then you are terribly mistaken.The Indian public(we) are stupid but not that stupid.

  31. Dear Riaz,

    1 At least I am clear I am speaking to a moron sympathizer of DRDO for his selfish interest and possible cuts of large loads of money swindled off but now shaoing as research on Arjun . To cover up those expenses, you guyies are shoving it up our throats better will be it be at your back side. Instead of running down the Army or me or calling Indian Public stupid, why don’t you come out clearly what are the defects cleared by DRDO. The army certainly don’t want a heavy tank. The world Armies are rapidly modernizing on making their Armd Forces as Air Mech Bde . Gone are the days when there was classic tank to tank battles or stand off by simply showing strength of Heavy Battle tanks.Maneuverability has now become three dimensional. USA have learned this lesson of their Abhrams looking foolish in Iraq streets with insurgents throwing hand grenades from around the corner. There are research going on making a more versatile and moveable tank in such a war which will be more urbanized now than mere standing in Deserts as a pillbox . I do not expect to have Arjun beating a T 72/T90 in a long sustainability maneuvered battle right from garages to induction to break in to break out.

    2 In fact I will SUGGEST to spend that much money and resources on BMP 2 / or getting BMP

    3. I read somewhere from your kinds trying to shove Arjun down our throat that era of light tanks have gone. Friend on the contaray Such heavy tanks were finally rendered obsolete by ATGM and (HEAT) ammunition. The much more flexible missiles are effective at ranges beyond a tank gun's range, and sheer armour mass was no longer a guarantee of survivability against the largest HEAT warheads of tank guns or missiles. In short, super-heavy tanks are merely an extension of WW1 ideals regarding heavy assault guns placed on self-propelled carriages, emulating the railway guns and heavy artillery of their time, and with the rise of missiles and rockets, extremely long-range guns became obsolete.

    3 Indian Army is better off with a more sophisticated but a lighter tank as tpt is a major concern during mobilization. By the time we some how get Arjun near borders by sheer effort, you will not find a bridge between Jaipur and the IB that wouldn't collapse,if you tried to take one across; our Adversary will meet us half way down near Delhi. Maybe you shit and those shit holes can then have a hearty laugh together on making a mockery of Indian Army.

    4 I don’t have much time to get personal with you, I can understand that you want credit also for making loads of money in garb of doing stupid research on Arjun. I have seen its trial in Pokhran a couple of years back and let me tell you it was pathetic as far as sustainability and its reliability in moving a lumberjack in a maneuver warfare is concerned. I'm certain if there was anything about it that worked as advertised. Heavy tanks like Arjun will end up to be monstrous behemoths with many limiting factors concerning their usage, Unfortunate because I think it could have been turned into a relatively good light tank if it wasn't for some idiotic decisions during its design

    5 Lastly let us face it what is happening in 2008, Arjun is one big dark moment in tank building history. The only really good thing about it is that those involved got some experience to which base their delayed future projects. Otherwise large-scale projects are always a risk, and also in this particular case the requirements of both parties were still so different, that the collapse of the project was no big surprise. In technical side, it demonstrated once again that too much technical advantages at once is too much ? Not a benefit. Even more so, unless you' re willing to stand firm behind the novel features and put effort into solving the problems that always came up.

  32. Realist,

    "1 At least I am clear I am speaking to a moron sympathizer of DRDO for his selfish interest and possible cuts of large loads of money swindled off but now shaoing as research on Arjun To cover up those expenses, you guyies are shoving it up our throats better will be it be at your back side."

    Yes yes bring on the abuse now!When cannot say anything useful personal attack is the way to go!
    By the same token I could clearly say you are one of the corrupt army guy receiving cut money from T-90 deals.Two can play at your game.

    Are you also one of those guys who invent new uses for ketchup in Siachen?

    " Instead of running down the Army or me or calling Indian Public stupid"

    Having problems understanding English are we :roll eyes:

    why don’t you come out clearly what are the defects cleared by DRDO

    Ha ha most funny.See I told you before I don’t work for DRDO and I don’t know..but at that time I guess instead of listening properly , you were possibly spreading ketchup on the snow or arranging your gardening equipments!

    We are waiting for Shukla Ji’s assessment s and reports as to what is happening right now.Atleast he provides up to date and correct information and not misinform the public like you!

    I don’t know what the army wants and what DRDO gave but it is clear from the reports how the army gave false testimony to the parliament.And it is also clear that there are vested interests in the army to run down an indigenous product(and not for the first time).And also I am all for cleaning up mess of govt institutions.And I pray that it happens soon.

    We are just waiting for Shuklajis next article and that will probably make things more clearer but in the meantime you just had to post propaganda and disinformation.A neutral observer will cl;earlt catch on whose side you are batting on and whci side you are turning a blind eye to.

    We just want the truth and not falsehood cloaked as the truth.So you can STOP because you are just recirculating the old information.

    …….Bring on more abuses now!I know you cannot counter any specific points or give straight forward answers.

  33. Realist,

    As far as time for heavy tanks is gone bullshit , let the US supply the pakis with M1A2 SEP/TUSK and we will see you cr*apping in your pants and begging the government for heavier tanks and changes of GSQR again!

  34. Realist,

    If Arjun has problems I will agree with you lets not induct it.But the same isnt applicable for the Tin Cans is it ;).That pathetic piece of already obsolete tank!Yeah , it will beat the arjun only if you can first get the FCS to work right and can penetrate its armour!!As I said it only needs the enemy to have a tank with superior armour and firepower(DU rounds maybe!) and the prospects of the heavy tank suddenly begin to look attractive.
    Whether Arjun is good or bad is debatable/unknown unless more information comes out, but TinCan-90 is a piece of Cr*p that is already established.So why order 1000s of those eh?60 degrees inside the tank!!I am told some of the tank crews fainted from the heat!How we abuse our poor jawans !

  35. Dear riaz,

    1 You are just beating around the bush without any specific details why Arjun is superior to T 90/T72. It is best we stop now, further discussion. I will certainly appreciate any latest info on which auth you are claiming my info on Arjun is obsolete. By the way have u ever attended a desert Ex and appreciated on ground requirement of tanks in a mobile warfare. Mr Shukla is an Ex Armd Corp officer and he will understand when a tanks bogs down in harsh heat, what happens?

    2 Since you are not from DRDO how can you claim army vested interest are there in not accepting Arjun. Anyway if you have anything substantiate to enlighten me on supremacy of Arjun we will be in touch, Otherwise don’t waste our time in simply picking on our comments without seeing the truth of Arjun fuckups.

    3 As far as your DRDO friends are concerned eating so many crores sitting in offices, remind them of this poem.

    Corruption's hidden by it’s sheen
    Always there, but never seen
    Attraction mesmerizing saints
    The devils hue, upon them paints
    Beware of short lived wealth and fame
    It really is a dangerous game
    This world is going down the pan
    Sucking at the Godly man
    Who gently wanders off the path
    To take an early, sinful bath
    He slowly fades from glowing coal
    Becomes an ashen, greying soul
    Who once was standing on The Rock
    But now is seated in the dock
    Awaiting the Eternal Judge
    To give his fate a hell bound nudge.

    4 Regards and hoping for a sharing some conversation to improve mutual knowledge from now onwards or lets us stop I have no time on responding to useless blames on me for all your Arjun fuckups and DRDO corruption .

  36. Mr Shukla!

    Well Sir saw your newest report on Busines Standard.Well done sir!Excellent article.


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