Broadsword quiz: a comparative evaluation of these two photos - Broadsword by Ajai Shukla - Strategy. Economics. Stuff.

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Thursday, 19 January 2012

Broadsword quiz: a comparative evaluation of these two photos


I have already figured out that these are tanks on a train. The best answers will have to go well beyond that! Let's have some identification, evaluation and analysis here...



63 comments:

  1. winter game pictures... one is indian and the other chinese... chinese is bound on to the top of world... tibet... for an excersise... the other to central india on to the storage facility in the plains... after an excersise... (dirt on tracks)...

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  2. a) They seem to be washing their tanks prior to/post exercise, we dont waste time doing that. Either this OR they are new tanks.

    b) They are in a railway station?? Whats that for??

    c) Tarp on the tank, makes better sense (less grime entering it)

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  3. left side is Chinese and right side is, may be on Pune station :-)

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  4. In the second picture we see some T 72 tanks with their halved fuel cans. Madhya rail could mean they come from 21 corps or thereabouts.(but what about the hills in the background? Bhopal? Pathankot?!)

    the first and brighter of the two are clearly the Arjuns. But here the tank crews are not travelling under the tanks like they do while covering shorter distances ( as in the other picture where you notice the hanging winter jacket ), but in one of those troop trains in the back ground.

    So the T72s could have featured in the recent excercise in Rajasthan. The Arjuns with that paint could have something to do with Army day or Republic Day (the latter need only three).

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  5. Left picture show chinese tank and left one indian tanks

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  6. Left photo showing the ZTZ-99A2 MBT photographwed at Xi'an, PRC, has already been discussed and analysed at: http://trishul-trident.blogspot.com/2012/01/chinas-latest-mbt-sports-1500hp-gas.html
    The other photo shows Indian T-72Ms being ferried by Central Railways.

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  7. the extra wide tracks make it look like Arjun

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  8. The wide tracks make it look like Arjun

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  9. Hello Sir:

    I believe the picture on the left shows Chinese tanks (ZTZ99?) in transit and the picture on the left shows Indian tanks in transit (likely T-72s).

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  10. Its end of Jan dude..who is winning the mmcra ?

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  11. first pic is of chines type 99 on way to Tibet imho because of passenger bogey and overhead electrifcation line is not common in india.
    second pic is our beloved T 72 clue is madhey rail way and dirty tracks

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  12. hi the tanks without cover are Chinese type 99 aka MBT 2000 aka type 98

    the tanks which are covered are T 72 tanks Indian army

    regards

    VinayG

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  13. One is of the tanks that are being moved to a forward location. The units look after their eqpt.

    the other is from Avadi to the new unit. DRDOdoes not provide tarpaulin covers.

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  14. Chinese ZTZ-99A2 left vs Indian T72

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  15. Chinese ZTZ-99A2 Tank and other one could be either Combat Improved Ajay or T-90

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  16. Type 99A2 on the left..

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  17. Is it the Arjuns

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  18. indian tank are covered that's good

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  19. first photo shows Chinese tanks on move boldly, second a secret move of indian tank regiment.

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  20. 62-tonne ZTZ-99A2 main battle tanks tank (MBT) of China and that filtyhy looking picture is T-72 or may be T-90 tanks somewhere near Babina

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  21. tdblog@yahoo.com:

    Not so good at it I am. But wouldn't mind guessing:
    1. Chinese T55 tanks
    2. Indian T90 tanks

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  22. tdblog@yahoo.com

    Sorry guessed it wrong earlier:
    1. Chinese ZTZ-99A2

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  23. First one is Chinese ZTZ-99A2 MBT and second one Type 98 or type 99 (i am not sure about second mbt).

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  24. tanks on left are chinese while those on right are indian

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  25. First Picture:
    Rail Transport of new Chinese Type99 Variant spotted recently.

    Second Picture:
    Rail Transport of Indian T90

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  26. The first picture is of the chinese ZTZ-99A2 tanks and the second picture is of IA T-72 tanks.

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  27. First one is from china type 99 tank.
    Second one is T-72 from india

    Aditya

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  28. Well i would say that our neighbour's is spanking new! And ours is like its been to a War and back...btw we also have that desi knack of protecting(hiding) with Tarpaulins!

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  29. Col
    The left one is the new chinese Type 99A2 ZTZ tank most probably in the Shanxi province of china

    The right one is the India T72 tank Most probably belonging to the 41st armored regiment in ahmednagar.

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  30. It looks like we have a line of Abraham's and T 90/T72 on the train.

    So M1's are in a foreign country and the T 90's/T 72 are Indian.

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  31. The chinese tank serves under the shenyang military region. the tank also looks familiar with M1 Abrams, specially the rear. this is also the first tank in the chinese army with an active protection system.

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  32. China's 62-tonne ZTZ-99A2 main battle tanks sporting (ERA) tiles on the glacis, turret front and turret sides, being carted by their railway.
    The other is of Arjuna MBT, covered with canvas being transported by Indian rail. The significant feature of which is the amount of the tank sticking out sideways from the carriage.

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  33. Type 95 being transported somewhere in China and T-72s somewhere in our land...

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  34. Pic 1 - probably T72's sent for maintenance or recycling to HVF ?

    Pic 2 - brand new Arjuns on their way to their new bases

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  35. the one on left is in Russia and the one on right is in India.

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  36. Chinese on left

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  37. My analysis:
    - Country: P.R. China.
    - Railway: Qinghai-Tibet railway.
    - Tanks: Type-99 MBT.

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  38. Chinese vs Indian tanks being transported on trains.
    Indian-Possibly T55's .
    Chinese-Possibly Type 99

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  39. My analysis:
    Photo-1:
    - Country: P.R. China.
    - Railway: Qinghai-Tibet railway.
    - Tanks: Type-99 MBT.
    - Air-quality: Clean.

    Photo-2:
    - Country: India
    - Railway: Central Railway.
    - Tanks: T-90
    - Air-quality: Polluted.

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  40. It is arjun and other one is T72 tanks

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  41. http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90786/7691166.html

    Chinese MBT ZTZ99A2
    New Chinese Tank..on peoples daily news.

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  42. Tanking up the trains??

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  43. ones t-72 by the worn out and beaten down appearance. if not its t-90and the other one's Arjun. the first pic is definitely russian due to the low profile of the tank and other arjun with the bigger profile. the broad appearence of arjun is a indication of western style leopard 2 earlier model.. dont think there is more to this than this answer. by the way know when MMRCA going to end mr Suhkla?

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  44. Left pic: Bulk production being carried out at Inner-Mongolia First Machinery Group Corp (also known as (617 Factory) in Baotou, Inner Mongolia for the People Liberation Army's 62-tonne, 1500hp transverse-mounted gas turbine, ZTZ-99A2 main battle tanks tank after 3 years of user-trials.

    Right Pic: T-72M1 Ajeya which will be undergoing upgrades under Operation Rhino plan.

    ReplyDelete
  45. The Chinki tanks have parking brakes. Hence no dip in the rail carriages.

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  46. First Pic: Chinese MBT ZTZ99A2, Some where in China, Not tied with chains on the railway trailer, Seems some kind of brake feature available.

    Second Pic: Indian T-72 Tanks, Transported with Central railways, tied well with chains, also covered with Tarpaulin sheets. When a regiments moves in India, few officers & jawans also accompany the train as usual they have to accommodate on the trailers only.

    Indian railway track is broad gauge 1,676 mm (5 ft 6 in).
    While Chinese seems to be bit small as it is Standard Gauge 1,435 mm (4 ft 8 1⁄2 in).
    Does this have any significance in the load carrying capacity of the track. Also the Chinese tanks are not having any overlying edges on the side as the Indian T 72's (2-5 inches)

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  47. It is new Chinese tank that is being transported. The other picture is features Tank in India.

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  48. To me it looks like that the Chinese Tanks are Gas Turbine driven (from the Air-Intakes at the aft end)
    Indian Tanks conventional diesel powered.

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  49. the chinese tank has already been IDed..the indian one seems to be the T-72

    the chinese tanks are APPARENTLY being transported w/o any sort of covering..i say so cause these are new tanks of the latest chinese type and might have been uncovered for photographing the same (jingo PR), but might travel covered otherwise

    the indian tanks are covered, and this serves multiple purposes, the most basic being protection against the elements..further reasons that might seem trivial include protection against arsonists, and one less opportunity for inimical interests to photograph assets for feeding the databases that can be used to guide ATGMs (IP)..

    on the other hand, one would hope that the covers would be (periodically?) taken off once they enter more populated areas, for the sole purpose of some jingo PR of our own..

    to some it appears as if the chinese tanks aren't pinned to the cars..take a closer look at pics here-

    http://trishul-trident.blogspot.com/2012/01/chinas-latest-mbt-sports-1500hp-gas.html

    pinning the tanks would be considered a simple contingency should something happen to the train itself...

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  50. http://chinesemilitaryreview.blogspot.com/2011/12/chinese-peoples-liberation-army-ztz.html

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  51. The first one is chinese mobilization of the tanks. One can tell by their looks how frequntly and fantasticly they are maintained by the chinese. I have often seen while to n fro from pune, that the T72 are parked on the unused tracks covered by a cloth. seems that our tanks are only maintained during war time. other wise garaged in open. This bad maintanance is exactly what left us bafffled during operation parakram as well as during retaliation strikes in wake of 26 11
    I think we need to take care of our military hardware in a much much better way should we need less preparation time in wake of militry confrontations

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  52. 1st Pic: From the yard and overhead catenary layout you can clearly tell it's a foreign set up most likely chinese,
    2nd Pic: TinCan -72s being transported by a CR rake most likely into or out of Babina Cantt near Jhansi

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  53. Ist picture-- is in North Korea...and second most likely India

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  54. Chinese tanks are being powered by Gas Turbine Engines see air intake ar back. Indian are conventional diesel.

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  55. now let us have broadsword's take..

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  56. Picture on left shows that somebody from CPC withdrew $100 million of Chinese taxpayer money and gave piles of scrap-metal to China which even the Hungarian army will giggle at.

    Picture on right shows that somebody from Cong(I) withdrew $100 million of Indian taxpayer money and gave piles of scrap-metal to India which even the Polish army will giggle at.

    ReplyDelete
  57. Left: Chinese Tanks nicely maintained and clean. Travelling in covered carriages with parking brakes.

    Right: Indian Tanks badly maintained and dirty. Travelling in uncovered carriages without parking brakes and covered with just piece of cloth.

    ReplyDelete
  58. Whats with this weird thing on chains and parking brakes!!!I see chocks on the Chinese tanks which probably do the anchoring for them.Chains are perfectly standard.Since a lot of guys here seem to relish 'foran stuff', here is how the US do it.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVlteGzH004&feature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ZStjcykl0QQ#!

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  59. @Anon 22.01.2012 20:52,
    The Indo-Pak wars have seen some of the fiercest and biggest tank battles post ww2,something that the poles have not done.The most the poles did with their tanks was dance to the Russian bear in warsaw pact exercises or now under NATO command.

    And these tanks are returning to home base after exercises,where they will undergo the required maintenance.

    Has anyone seen the deserts where these guys exercise and the conditions there.And whet is the value of water there,which is put to better use than wash on mud.These are not shiny trinkets and toys.When the occasion requires they are as shiny and showy as anyone of the shiny pansies out here want.

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  60. @Annon 23 January 2012 23:27
    you siad :
    "The Indo-Pak wars have seen some of the fiercest and biggest tank battles post ww2 "

    Do not such a laughing stock.. bad pictures and bad demonstrative effect has no excuses..

    ReplyDelete
  61. @Anon 24 January 2012 13:53,

    Google 'Battle of Asal Uttar' or 'Battle of Chawinda'or read the accounts of the India -Pakistan 1965 war before passing further comments.
    Our army is one of the few that has given US made tanks a beating.
    And why involve the Poles?

    Are there not enough jokes on them already!

    ReplyDelete
  62. BROADSWORD ANSWER:

    NOBODY'S GOT IT ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. THE CORRECT ANSWER IS:

    THE PHOTO ON THE LEFT IS (FROM A SERIES THAT APPEARED IN THE CHINESE MEDIA) THE ZTZ-99A2 (TYPE 99A2) MBT. ACCORDING TO THE CHINESE MEDIA, IT WAS PHOTOGRAPHED IN SHANXI (THEIR VERSION OF JHANSI?)... BUT MY ANALYSIS SUGGESTS THAT THIS WAS A PHOTO-OP AND NOT REALLY PICS OF ACTUAL TRANSPORTATION.

    FIRSTLY, IT ISN'T A GREAT IDEA TO TRANSPORT TANKS WITHOUT ANCHOR CHAINS ON EITHER END. IF THE TRAIN NEEDS TO APPLY ITS VACUUM BRAKES, THE TANKS WILL ROLL OVER THE CHOCKS AND POTENTIALLY OVERTURN THE WAGON.

    SECONDLY, NO CAVALRY WORTH ITS SALT TRANSPORTS TANKS WITHOUT ANY FORM OF PROTECTIVE COVERING. WHAT HAPPENS IF IT RAINS? WHAT HAPPENS IF THERE'S DUST?

    SO IT'S A PHOTO OP.

    I DON'T BUY ANY OF THE BULLSHIT ABOUT A 1500 HP GAS TURBINE AND ACTIVE PROTECTION SYSTEM. THIS IS A PRETTIED-UP T-62 OR T-72... THE BASIC OUTLINES OF THE TANK ARE QUITE EVIDENT BELOW ALL THAT FANCY SLOPED ARMOUR.

    ----------------

    THE TANKS ON THE RIGHT ARE INDIAN ARMY T-72s, PHOTOGRAPHED AT PATHANKOTE RAILWAY STATION. THEY ARE ON THEIR WAY BACK FROM FIRING AT THE MAHAJAN FIELD FIRING RANGES.

    ReplyDelete
  63. you are right ajay ji I had cross check the photo these is Photoshoped and crossed between(if true) VT 2000 and type 99A2
    as in VT 2000 gas exhaust is on rear end but on type 99A2 it is left side as shown in the pics.

    ReplyDelete

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