The latest on the LSP-3: from my visit to HAL - Broadsword by Ajai Shukla - Strategy. Economics. Defence.

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Sunday 6 July 2008

The latest on the LSP-3: from my visit to HAL

The LSP-3 is being assembled at a hanger in HAL, Bangalore. These pictures show a part of the integration process which is underway. The aircraft is likely to make its first flight by Sept/Oct this year, but will be delivered only in December 08.

The new systems which the LSP-3 will incorporate (i.e. which have not yet been tried out in earlier Tejas aircraft) are:

  • Multi-mode radar by ELTA
  • VOR/ILS (by HAL Hyderabad)
  • TACAN (by HAL, Hyderabad)
  • Air Data Computer (by ADE)
  • Beta vane (by BAE Systems)
  • Nose wheel free castor (by Elechronica Aster)
  • IFF (by HAL, Hyderabad)
The Air Data Computer, built by ADE, is the critical new component in LSP-3. Also note the photo of the dummy R-73 missile. That's standard fitment in all versions of the Tejas.

The LSP-3 engine has been fitted... the wiring is being done presently.



  1. Any idea when LCA Tejas will get the in-flight refueling probe?

  2. Sir, what are the specs of the radar?

  3. great made my day.
    @above-the same radar is used by isreal on its f-16s. not sure about exact specs but its one of the best in class.

  4. @above even I know that it is based on Elta2032 but is it having the specs? if no then what are the exact specs?

  5. What is the current position of LCA Tejas Trainer PV-5?
    Any idea on its Firstflight?
    any Pictures of LSP-2

  6. good to see some progress on lca front hope it doesn't suffer same fate as arjun.

  7. Arjun thing has become a mess. I think the President should order execution of some top corrupt people in MoD and Mechanised Forces. Then only the looting will stop. Between the Army has even agreed to install ECS to make T-90 FCS work. This is bullshit! If FCS fiasco happened to Arjun they might have even called for program cancellation. This must not be allowed. Hopefully the cream of navy and airforce is not as corrupt as army.

  8. Sir, thanks for posting these beautiful pics.

    I can see two LCAs in 4th pic(from top). One is LSP-3. Please name second?

  9. Tejas - the last of the 4th gen fighters to enter service anywhere in the world. Even with good wing area, it is overweight and hence under-performing. Is there even space for a re-fuel probe?

    Sarcasm aside, LCA is meant as a short range fighter. Drop tanks should be sufficient.

    Arjun - Monument for what can happens to the high ideals of sooooon to be super power, due to its corrupt politicians and servicemen.

  10. ^^
    i smell a paki.
    yeah, what else can an aircraft without DSI do? I mean how do other aircraft without DSI fly? how is that possible?
    The Indian products like Arjun and LCA pass through acid tests of our Armed forces, but on the battleground they will be worth pure gold.
    Your Al-Khali Dabbas will be no match for the Arjuns, nor will your Junked Fighter-17 be a match to LCA. You guys should not recycle so much, producing new fighters with used Mig fuselages is just too much of an extreme.

    We Indians dont take the word of our Armed forces of "sab achchha hai" about everything. The problems with our defence projects are discussed with enough knowledge in the public domain. Yours get a Naval chief fired without any public info. But these public infos also get you pakis ammo for doubting Indian capability, go on you did that earlier too. 1paki= 10 Indians etc etc. funny how your asses burn when 72 is mentioned.

    BTW Your JF-17 is still overweight, but nobody will tell you that. Those changes in the 4th prototype were nothing but an attempt to improve performance. Changes like extended LERX improve the stability of the aircraft, but reduce maneuverability's, try looking up F-18 in wikipedia and compare its LERX with F-16, you will get an idea.
    The DSI was added to improve the air intake because it was not sufficient, they also increased the area of intake. I still doubt if it will help. That Russian engine will need better intakes than the ones your Chinese friends have put.

  11. Porki! / Anonymous @ 07 July 2008 04:31
    Having said above you have accepted that your chinki JF-17 is a 3rd gen fighter. Because it has still to enter service...

    An all aluminium airframe, underpowered engine, not fully fly-by-wire etc. Since you have already accepted, i need not to explain how and why...

    Remember, 1 Nag is more than sufficient to convert your indigenous(as per pakistani standards) Al-Khalid into All-Khandit. And don't dare to face Arjun, single shot from Arjun will spray black fine iron dust over yellow sand.

  12. I was talking about weight-to-size ratio. An F16 has seen 6-7 blocks of upgrades before significant airframe changes. They could add new engines, improved avionics radars and a lot more. That because they had space/means to incorporate all that.

    Tejas is already too packed. Upgrade potential is pretty limited. JF-17 may be a generation behind LCA. But that doesn't change my previous post

    BTW,believe we are not discussing my nationality in this forum.. I may be just a Bangladeshi, Pakistani and ABCD or a pissed off Indian!

  13. No ABCD or pissed off Indian would say this about Indian servicemen. Your post entire length of it was sarcastic and smelled fresh out of PDF.
    1)Last of the 4th gen not yet inducted.
    4)No-place for fuel probe
    5)Meant to be short range
    Last but not the least points
    6)Monument for what can happens to the high ideals of sooooon to be super power.
    7)due to its corrupt politicians and servicemen.

    Whom are you fooling?

    Your post here was to do nothing but try put the LCA as well as India including its servicemen down, so your nationality matters.

    weight to size or thrust to weight ratio? the LCA isnt as packed as it is made out by the newspapers. The PVs have undergone enough estate (space) management to allow for additional features.
    The problem with addition of a new engine is the redesign of the components required in the given timeframe. The top priority is to get IOC. And the current LSPs have enough capability to get there.
    The 2003 change in ASRs for enhanced capability in LCA has actually precipitated the current thrust conundrum. (Interested people read "Look who's talking" in The Week).
    The F-16 upgrades happened in Blocks, that too after induction. In the case of LCA it is happening before the induction. So now the focus is IOC, that will happen in time. The weaponization is on-track. Let the LSP-3 fly, and that is going to be soon, it will show what LCA can accomplish as a fighting machine in its initial version, Blocks and MKs will follow. The ADA wants it to be inducted first then they will improve its capabilities, including higher thrust engine with thrust vectoring, AESA radar, improvement of stealth features. The upgrade potential and path is good enough to see the LCA in service till 2040-50.
    By the way there is space for refuelling probe. You will see that soon on LCA.

  14. Your limited knowledge speaks who you are. But its natural from a porki. You belong to a country who used to make false claim. eg-claiming Jf-17, Type-90/Al-Khalid, K-8, SAAB Safari/Supermushak indigenous.
    You talked upgrade/Block. Very basic information, but i think you need this too. When a fighter see an upgrade, its done by replacing older ones by more advanced one. I said 'REPLACING' not 'ADDING'.
    When LCA will see upgrade, it will be done by replacing older radar by new size and weight budgeted one. More avionics will fused together. HUD will be replaced by HMD. Lighter airframe(more composite) etc etc
    In all these All-In-One avionics and hardware will create more space as well reduce empty weight, thus enabling addition if needed in future.......

  15. So much for your judgement :)

    We will how much of that talk is actually done! LCA will surely be improved upon. But what guarantee do you have that IAF will not do the same thing to LCA that the army is doing to Arjun?

    India still has issues with sensor miniaturization. We insist on AESA on the MMRCA because we lack the know-how to make a fighter-sized Aesa. As long as you dont miniaturize, your upgrades will tend to be heavier. Believe me, I am that pissed off Indian, who is more self-critical than you emotional types.

    I too wish to see that that talk if the previous two posts be implemented sometime within the life of this craft. But I am not optimistic about the time lines.

  16. Ajai thank you for posting pictures of things that we would otherwise not get to see. But I must point out that the photographic value of many of your pictures is pretty poor.

    The R-73 mockup is shown obliquely and no effort has been made to rotate the picture and crop the image so people do not have to sprain their necks to see the image.

    The LSP assembly hangar is a meaningless picture with no effort to compose the image to show something, and lots of things are seen partially.

    The IJT picture shows camera shake and does not even show the whole aircraft. In fact even the humans are only seen partially. Nothing is complete. Nothing is in focus.

    Please do some reading or take advice on how to compose photographs. any TV cameraman should be able to help - I suspect you know a few.


  17. AJAI! Kick this bloody shiv out of your blog.He thinks he is too big in his BR forum along with his idiotic bunch, consisting mainly of sold out NRIs selling idlis in those malls some where near fatlanta!

  18. Lets not turn this blog to cyber battlezone and keep it to respective forums.

  19. Ah, I see... my camera will tell me if there is shake, and the picture is blurred. Your camera probably does not, that explains it... now I understand.

  20. please stop linking shiv as if his every post is a BR official post.

    It is his individual eccentric nature (frankly irritating but what can one do)- why tar all the BRF ites many who love all the stuff Ajai is doing

  21. Let me officially apologise for my poor photos... but the fact is that I am a writer and not a photographer. So bear with me.

    I don't agree, though, that the hangar photo is poorly composed. I think that, having brought you closeups in the other photos... there is a need for a wide-angle photo to give a perspective of what the hangar looks like. In video filming, it's called "establishing".

    Also, I have more pics of the R-73 dummy. But I didn't think people were so interested in a dummy missile. I would have imagined that the information that the Tejas is flying all missions with a dummy R-73 was more important.

    All this is not to argue that my pictures are good. But just treat them as bonus. I simply don't have the time to start learning photography.

  22. Thanks for being gracious. Keep up the good work. I suspect, without proof that your camera is a digital one that does not click as soon as you press the button.

    A more expensive SLR with a wide angle lens/zoom might be a good idea. Apologies if my assumptions are wrong.



  23. one minor mistake,
    the fuselage is lsp-5. which is seen clearly in third and 4th photo. But good work ajai, apart from the minor problems. Is it not possible for you to get a tripod, or some professional to shoot a photo?

  24. to my "so-called pissed off Indian" friend above,
    But what guarantee do you have that IAF will not do the same thing to LCA that the army is doing to Arjun?
    F H Major, because he is a strong backer of indigenous technology development. Compare the changes in IAF's dealing with LCA since he has come. He is pragmatic and has made some good decisions for the future of the project. LCA will achieve IOC till his tenure ends and that is going to be a good thing.
    About sensor miniaturization, yes we are behind, but catching up. But thats not the reason for AESA in MMRCA, not to learn knowhow, but for the greater capability it brings. And I dont think we will gain much by any TOT for AESA, which is quite less likely in itself to happen. I dont know which country will be ready to part with that tech, given the price we are offering.
    I am critical enough where it needs be, but I would first pick my sources well to believe. Either you didnt know how many changes happened since TDs especially in space management or you dont want to know, just wanted to give some off the cuff remarks and go off. Nor would you wanted to know the ASR change for multi role capabilites in 2003 and the resultant change in weight, increasing the thrust requirements, blown out of proportion by the media.
    The way the media has covered LSP-2 has been very curious, especially since it was supposed to have improved thrust as compared to earlier protos. It was kept very low-key. I dont know whether it has been a pr mistake or media supression or some other reason. I think the new engine is more than sufficient for "limited combat" if not for full-fledged combat. I dont understand what exactly the guys mean by "limited combat". I mean you want it to lug 2 prithvis on wing pylons or a 3-ton brahmos on the centreline one? I thought it was supposed to have additional capabilities (and I think IAF ppl think the same way) and not to be Death Star, and that it will quite comfortably. In this current configuration of Engine, airframe and avionics, LCA is a point defence fighter with a decent ground attack capability. Only thing that remains is to test its capabilities, which is being done. If indeed you are a pissed-off Indian all you need is to wait less than six months for the ground attack tests, same for radar integrated LCA and 2 years for IOC. Look at the summer trial news, its gone on well, soon you will hear ground attack news, the good news have started to increase in flow and all you need to do is to keep checking this blog.

  25. To anon above: Good Post !

  26. Its been long wait for LSP-3 to assemble....

    please somebody inform us once LSP-3 flys...

  27. when the lsp-3 will fly??? I m curiously waiting for the moment. Plz keep on updating with the news on LCA TEJAS.Thank you.

  28. Still no sign of LSP3 or the twin seater PV5. I am betting on 2015 for LCA Mk1 and 2020 for LCA Mk2. MCA can wait for 2030.


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