Siachen talks: samosas and chai, but no meeting of minds - Broadsword by Ajai Shukla - Strategy. Economics. Defence.

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Tuesday 31 May 2011

Siachen talks: samosas and chai, but no meeting of minds

Pak Defence Secretary, Lt Gen (Retd) Syed Athar Ali, flanked by Pak High Commissioner, Shahid Malik, calling on Defence Minister AK Antony. Defence Secretary Pradeep Kumar is at the right.

Joint Statement Defence Secretary Level Talks between India and Pakistan on Siachen

New Delhi: Jyaistha 10, 1933
Wednesday, May 31, 2011

The Defence Secretary level talks between India and Pakistan on Siachen were held on May 30-31, 2011 in New Delhi. The Indian delegation was led by Shri Pradeep Kumar, Defence Secretary, and the Pakistan delegation was led by Lt. Gen (Retired) Syed Athar Ali, Defence Secretary. The Defence Secretary of Pakistan also called on Shri AK Antony, Defence Minister of India.

Both sides welcomed the ongoing dialogue process. The discussions were held in a frank and cordial atmosphere, contributing to an enhanced understanding of each other’s position on Siachen. They also acknowledged that the ceasefire was holding since November 2003. Both sides presented their positions and suggestions towards the resolution of Siachen.

The Pakistan side presented a non-paper on Siachen.

Both sides agreed to continue the discussions in a meaningful and result oriented manner. They agreed to meet again at a mutually convenient date in Islamabad.


  1. Col Shukla,
    I am not against these talks at all. Now I have a hang of things in the manner they move through GOI. Hats off to babus who manage this governance! This Charade can continue till the time cows come home or the dreamers of 'Mughalia sultanate' continue to flourish in Pakistan.

    Real peace can only be achieved between the 2 countries with the following conditions...

    1. Pakistan makes peace with itself and forget 2 nation theory

    2. Pakistani military and it's elites must be thoroughly discredited by the world - Abbotabad raid, PNS Mehran Raid and occasional jhapads by India. The Abdul on the street has been sold a story that "Army is the saviour of their Honour and Dignity. Army will avenge them the loss of Mughaliya Sultanate." This premise must be broken thoroughly.

    3. India must not make war with these Jehadis in Camaflouge for another 5-6 years and grow unabated. We must reach a critical mass of $4Tn economy and uplift, educate our poor. this will bring harmony in Indian society and thus reduce the fissures internally.

    4. We must raise the defence budget to around 3% of GDP and modernize, worst case- 2.75%.

    5. Continue with these Chai biscut sessions and homour the ledge of MMS ( he is not coming back in any case)

    6. Keep these Christina unfair, uneven Cohen types away from india. Refuse them Visa.

    7. Don't indulge in rhetoric with Pakistanis. let them stew in their own juice. Refuse to interact with any diplomat who hyphenates India with pak.

    9. Not even a single inch of the country is negotiable. We are growing nation and population, we need all the land that we can have.

    10. Allow people to people exchange with pakis but keep them away from citizenship, work and residence in india. We don't need them at all. These rich anglophile pakistani elite are the root cause of the hostility.

    Thank you bureaucrats for this charade and may nation prosper faster. Continue this " more than halfway" talks.

    Pakis are getting desperate to show some results. We must humour them by inviting them and give some books on Patience, learning mandarin, claiming moon ( Pakis hv a valid claim as moon is part of their flag).


  2. Good. Atithi devo bhava but no parting gifts.

  3. Were the samosas meat samosas or vegetarian? Were were the soft drinks served? Did we serve Thums Up? I bet they responded with the middle finger!

  4. I think that Siachen and Islamabad etc are all internal matters of India and to be settled within India.

    Further if India has any problems on its western borders, then such matter shall be amicably discussed with Afghanistan or Iran as the need be.

  5. I think we should make it very clear and open.Siachen is integral to India's security.It is all the more vital with the Chinese making worrying moves in that area.The Chinese in the long term want to secure themselves both against a failing,extremist, radicalized Pakistan and India.They are quite worries about their own Muslim minorities.They will swamp them with the Han majority ultimately,but there may be trouble.Thus their efforts to intrude in these area. Like Isarel who openly state that they will never retreat to 1967 borders for their security,India must make it clear that we can keep on talking peace on Siachen,environment,no premptive attacks on posts etc BUT we shall not vacate.Such a move would be the Haji Pir type of vacation.Did it help India or generate even an iota of goodwill.We must ALWAYS keep the Pak mentality,esp of it army in mind.Any concession to Pakistan given by India is projected NOT as goodwill of India but as a natural entitlement to what was 'always Pakistani' and 'push these Indians(hindus???) hard enough and they will capitulate as always!

  6. @chandrabhan

    (Pakis have valid claim on moon since it's part of their flag)

    wow that comment made my day sir.

    In fact it immediately reflected on one of the "reasons" why Kashmir is "integral" to Pakistan, or so the Pakis say: The Name

    PAKiS-tan = Punjab Afghania Kashmir Sindh Baluchistan

    Apparently the Pakistan acronym contains a reference to Kashmir, so it's their's

    So who knows, they may protest at the next Chandrayaan mission, as it's in their flag.

    PS: One then wonders why they fought for Bangladesh when it's not a part of "Pakistan"

  7. Thank God for small mercies

  8. Should not expect much from this meeting. The fact they are in the same room again is a step in the right direction.

  9. Siachen belongs to Pakistan(Zindabad). Every government gave recognition of Siachen to Pakistan(Zindabad) for mountaineering expeditions, even peacefull governments like Japan. India should return the Glacier to Pakistan(Zindabad). We have been very tolerant by not waging a massive invasion of Siachen since 1984 because we are peaceloving and intend to resolve this issue in a peacefull way. But then India is coercing Pakistan(Zindabad) to accept some silly terms of actually recognising in paper that Siachen belongs to India!! how crazy. a thief steels your house and asks you to accept it before he vacates which is a Catch-22 game.
    Now it is clear that Pakistan(Zindabad)'s right is on Siachen and we will, Inshallah catch the whole glacier and shake hands with our Chinese(Paindabad) brothers when we move in once India agrees to our conditions Sooner or Later

  10. In your dreams Mr. Ayub Khan.
    Siachen is part of indian territory and it will remain with India for ever. there is nothing you(zindabadi's) and your friend(paindabad's) can do about that. Infact Pakistan had stolen some territory from India and named it azad kashmir, return it to us and you can live peacefully.

  11. I cannot comprehend this Siachen debacle.

    On one hand we strongly claim the whole of Kashmir as ours, going to the extent of disallowing maps potraying otherwise in the Country. Then why should we negotiate with "intruders" to "pull back" from OUR integral territory? It's laughable to even talk that. We keep soldiers where we like on Indian soil and nobody questions it. However much it costs us is our problem. We don't go around with begging bowls to fund any of our military operations.

    In addition, the 2 released wikileaks cables from 2006 on Mulford's observation on Siachen clearly shows that the Americans don't want India in Siachen. Mulford very clearly takes a Pakistani side and looks upon the Indian Army with hostility; as though the Pakistanis are so very good and sincere and Indians are the violent lot. This should strenghten our resolve to cling on to this vital piece of land -- When both the Yanks and Pakis (not to forget the Chinese) have a common intention, it cannot be good on us.

    Ajai, I request you to continue writing on the mainstream media on how we cannot afford to pull back as if the "mujaihedeen" come in again, we've lost it for good.

    (BTW your name is also mentioned in the cable as an "opponent" to the deal that our stupid, spineless leaders plan to "resolve")

  12. @Col Shukla, Sorry for the this answer but I hope you understand..pakistanis must come out of delusion and start taking care of the well being of their citizens at least now.. Your call

    @Ayub Khan,
    Sir you must be a Pakjabi. had you been a pashtoon or a Baloch, Sindhi, worse if Ahemadiya or Shia in belief then You would be Wajib-Ul-cuttle.
    NWFP & FATA belong to Afghans, they are Pashtoon lands and a great injustice has been done to them by the colonials by creating this Durand Line. Now Pakjabis are busy killing pashtoons by making Frontier Constabulary (Pashtoon para military force) fight Tehrik-e- Taliban (Ghilzai Pashtoons) and fatening Punjabis buy claiming that they have lost 35000 Pakistanis in terrorism. they never tell that poos pashtoons are killed on both sides. Pakjabi army is bombarding them with Arillery shells.

    As far as Siachin is considered,why not entire India belongs to you - remember Mughalia Sultanate. So what 99% of Pakistanis are not 'Ashrafs' are children of converted slaves.

    But you are free to claim India, Bangladesh, Burma, Afghanistan and parts of Iran. Sorry Babur came from Samarkand - Claim that too in Tajikistan/Kazakistan area too.

    See the world has only 2 countries - Pakistan and youl fliend Cheen.

  13. Uff - this Ayub Khan is clearly a fake. Why are you falling for this nonsense?

  14. I hope these talks are just formalities to keep Pak engaged in talks(virtual, ofcourse). Siachen is highly vital for India(water, strategic loc., china). India should not(rather cannot) afford to lose Siachen, needless to mention the sacrifices made by soldiers, even it forgets the importance of the location. As far as Pakistani hostility is concerned, they are only quiet as they are unable to retaliate. The moment they gain momentum, they will stab in the back. This serpent must be contained under toe.


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