tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post9000461372467152615..comments2024-03-29T05:44:18.835-07:00Comments on Broadsword by Ajai Shukla - Strategy. Economics. Defence.: China's defence industry offers lessons to IndiaBroadswordhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13076780076240598482noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-64576935463314161882011-08-02T23:11:22.129-07:002011-08-02T23:11:22.129-07:00Ajay, great reading your comments. Just ignore tho...Ajay, great reading your comments. Just ignore those who only insist on repeatedly disagreeing with what is said but refuse to make any useful or meaningful suggestions. Getting the user in the defense design-production loop is the most important step which our government somehow does not permit. I had covered many of these issues in my book "China;s Power Projection" published in 2005 by the USI but unfortunately not many thought it worthwhile reading the book. Best of luck and regards, Ramesh PhadkeRamesh Phadkehttp://rameshphadke@yahoo.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-50599327420627841312011-07-24T23:58:42.007-07:002011-07-24T23:58:42.007-07:00Yawn.. More "Chinese Innovation" on the ...Yawn.. More "Chinese Innovation" on the lines you talked about. A "cloned"/"improved" Chinese Bombardier train stalls and a "cloned"/"improved" Kawasaki train rams it from behind and the Chinese bury the mangled wreckage without even bothering to take the dead bodies out of it within 24 hours to "safeguard" , "vital national secrets" . Is that Chinese speak for coverup ? Ah, yes, and we have learned folks saying that there should be "transparency" (like the Chinese?). and oh, the Chinese committee to find the cause of the accident will examine exactly what, now that the wreck has been buried?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-284218072501692952011-07-23T07:45:04.300-07:002011-07-23T07:45:04.300-07:00Col. Shukla,
why do you need to make a personal a...Col. Shukla,<br /><br />why do you need to make a personal attack while disagreeing with a poster's views - for e.g. your replies at 19:06 and 19:13. there is bound to be some criticism - and you are big enough to take it on the chin if justified or ignore it entirely. Meanness is uncalled for.<br /><br />PS: I tend to agree with the article though !Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-85396452073237020882011-07-22T03:04:12.903-07:002011-07-22T03:04:12.903-07:00Many people commenting here seem to think that S&a...Many people commenting here seem to think that S&T parity with the west would require waiting for 1 more century. How stupid can people, especially those from the scummy recesses of sites like bharat rakshak and defence.pk get. China is moving ahead only because something changed there in the year 2000. We are still bogged down my a myriad of scams involving top military brass and people in the defense ministry.<br /><br />It is typical Indian habit to question every bit of wisdom no matter how well thought out unless said wisdom doesn't originate from the cynic's own mouth. Most of our middle class also clings to the illusion of a cheap, no good, reverse engineering automatons of China that has been fed to them by the western media. They don't realize that regurgitating the media version without any introspection makes them just what they think the Chinese are.<br /><br />The first steps, however, in having a decent defense industry is not simply privatization, but more transparency which removes the bad eggs in our system and increases accountability. As we are seeing in every sector in our country, random privatization without any anti monopoly laws or systems which check corporate misdemeanor, simply does more harm than good.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-2365465290525530392011-07-22T02:50:56.625-07:002011-07-22T02:50:56.625-07:00This was a good article. A link to the lecture, if...This was a good article. A link to the lecture, if available, would be much appreciated.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-22701606517381892492011-07-21T21:53:29.575-07:002011-07-21T21:53:29.575-07:00Yawnn. Oh so sophisticated Ajai Shukla gets needle...Yawnn. Oh so sophisticated Ajai Shukla gets needled when some points out that this "innovation" business is only a smokes and mirror show, nothing new.<br /><br />The airwaves are abuzz with a new Chinese "innovation". Yes, the Apple Stoer (it is not a misspell)<br /><br />This the original woman who broke that story and got picked up by media around the world..<br /><br />http://birdabroad.wordpress.com/2011/07/20/are-you-listening-steve-jobs/<br /><br />http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2011/07/21/the-ultimate-knock-off-a-fake-apple-store/ <br /><br />Now if this is the kind of "innovation" that India should be trying to do (how differrent is a cloned Flanker different from a cloned Apple Store, both being poor rip offs),like the Chinese, you are welcome to it!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-18673602047048416942011-07-20T11:08:07.212-07:002011-07-20T11:08:07.212-07:00We need to learn a lot from ChinaWe need to learn a lot from ChinaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-36417467658628887982011-07-20T06:04:41.535-07:002011-07-20T06:04:41.535-07:00How can you expect these people(DPSUs) to make top...How can you expect these people(DPSUs) to make top class defense equipment? They cant even secure a job for repairing air conditioners at Voltas.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-5261335973765159462011-07-20T04:40:11.340-07:002011-07-20T04:40:11.340-07:00The blame lies with the DRDO, has it ever been ask...The blame lies with the DRDO, has it ever been asked to account for its actions ? What has happeened to the Ramarao committee implementation ?<br />Can thye not find replacements to the senile idiots running the top programmes ? first they are employed for life through extensions and they through consultancy. Do they need to work on irrelevant areas and spend tax payers money ? have they ever been subject to CAG AuditAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-58973188169303517032011-07-20T00:47:43.886-07:002011-07-20T00:47:43.886-07:00Anon 01:48
Have you heard about Kaveri Engine. It...Anon 01:48<br /><br />Have you heard about Kaveri Engine. It is afterburner turbofan with 80kN thrust...so baby we in India can make engine with output of 7272hp. Thus, to make it simpler for your little brain making 90hp is certainly very small undertaking compared to 7272hp engine already developed by us. Also, Arjun MK2 will be engined in India after learning from Kaveri development.Moreover, have you heard of company called Maruti Suzuki they have developed K-series engine, extremely fuel efficient engine in India. So my recommendation if you are writing on this blog, probably you have access to google too...therefore use it before you exposed shallowness of your expertise. Developing engine is one thing but having a commercial venture out of developing new engine is separate.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-10074511975369182652011-07-19T15:01:10.512-07:002011-07-19T15:01:10.512-07:00Ajai, the last few articles have been a good read....Ajai, the last few articles have been a good read. Thanks for continuing to do good journalism. We need many more like you in India.<br /><br />Coming to this article, it was interesting to read what the Chinese have achieved in the last few decades and how, as well as the lessons in it for India. India does have a couple of unique advantages that it needs to press home with - its competitive private sector and the willingness of all major foreign defense corporations to partner with it. If this could be combined with a change in the protective mindset of the Indian govt. defense establishment (and there are signs that this is happening slowly but surely), there would be a revolution.<br /><br />At the core of the Indian problem is the insecurity of the Indian political establishment and its refusal to fully trust its military, which then translates into a reluctance to empower and involve the military in critical decision making.Manuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10316927735571151982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-25761640172931738902011-07-19T10:03:36.614-07:002011-07-19T10:03:36.614-07:00Defense procurement is one of the biggest sources ...Defense procurement is one of the biggest sources of corruption in India. The agents of the MNCs supplying military gears are also indulging in actions to discourage indigenous production of military equipment and systems. Every government at centre since independence has been affected by this corrupt influence. Due to this corrupt syndrome, indigenous manufacturing of military equipment and systems have suffered. It is a glaring case of poor and corrupt governance In India. This is also an important reason for slow eradication of poverty in our country. <br />Indigenous production of military hardware will generate technology that can be used for both military as well as civilian purpose. The following steps are urgently required to be taken by the government.<br />1. Expand and modernize all defense PSUs and ordinance factories.<br />2. Sell ten percent of shares of these PSUs in the market. This action will generate transparency in their operations and improve competitiveness. <br />3. Ordinance factories must be grouped and converted into PSUs.<br />4. DRDO must sell its technology to both public and private sectors.<br />5. Exports of military equipment must become a focus area for India.<br />It is time for all including civil societies to review the situation. Also, it is of concern that the image of military officers in the society is deteriorating continuously. Corrective actions are urgently required to remedy this.P.K.Chaudhurihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10243425778396514693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-39918170815391729162011-07-19T08:32:42.167-07:002011-07-19T08:32:42.167-07:00I think its opposite. Indian armed forces need to ...I think its opposite. Indian armed forces need to learn from PLA specially Army and Air force. <br /><br />India is the only country in the world where endogenous weapons have to compete with foreign system for Indian armed forces bid. India is the only country where if an indigenous solution is available Indian armed forces still goes for floating global tender for same type of weapons.Rajannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-64676493443847858202011-07-19T02:58:50.214-07:002011-07-19T02:58:50.214-07:00We will not make Indian weapon systems because the...We will not make Indian weapon systems because then the Hindus will learn to make them and RSS will make bomb factories and VHP will become powerful and then nada nada blah blah.Digvijay Singhnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-37527001666233868112011-07-18T22:26:46.412-07:002011-07-18T22:26:46.412-07:00Our S&T minister also happens to be the newly ...Our S&T minister also happens to be the newly elected president of Mumbai Cricket Association. Does S&T offer the glamour of MCA? Are there bollywood divas, wannabes in attendance at dos by Ministry of Science & Technology? Thought not, how do you expect the father of a bollywood actor to take charge of the unglamorous ministry? The chinese should learn from us. The future is entertainment: cricket, movies, magic..that is our soma pill.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-62932865949494233972011-07-18T13:18:39.035-07:002011-07-18T13:18:39.035-07:00Sala ek car engine to reverse engineer kiya nahi a...Sala ek car engine to reverse engineer kiya nahi aaj tak, baki kya khaak karenge ?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-45756755929615534042011-07-18T10:45:53.632-07:002011-07-18T10:45:53.632-07:00Ajai G, Did I notice something here ? You reply mo...Ajai G, Did I notice something here ? You reply more to negative comments, than the positive ones.. Is that so ? Just a thought ! <br /><br />btw I wud be happy if India has the capability to reverse engineer stuffs, let alone doing it or not doing it...Hope we develop this secretly, should we do not have one, this should come handy at desperate times....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-21661029999560523472011-07-18T08:50:44.034-07:002011-07-18T08:50:44.034-07:00QUOTE>>"It is all about being able to a...QUOTE>>"It is all about being able to absorb technology from outside," says Tai. "In catch-up countries, it is initially all about absorptive capacity, not about invention. The equipment has already been built elsewhere."<<UNQUOTE - A great thought. <br /><br />In backward countries the R&D profession, activities and innovations are generally looked down as time consuming and wastage of money. So the things keep on returning back to square one. <br /><br />I feel shocked to know that no one in India has so far innovated any light battle tank.Mr. Ranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-48974200836479090682011-07-18T06:43:27.969-07:002011-07-18T06:43:27.969-07:00@Anonymous 12:21
You're have serious difficul...@Anonymous 12:21<br /><br />You're have serious difficulties with the English language here!<br /><br />Mahatma Gandhi offers us an object lesson in how to conduct our lives. And he does it by providing an example... not by standing in front of us and saying, "THIS IS HOW YOU SHOULD BEHAVE".<br /><br />The same way, merely by being, the Chinese defence industry offers an example to the Indian defence industry.<br /><br />Get it?Broadswordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13076780076240598482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-87511799914181269662011-07-18T06:36:23.503-07:002011-07-18T06:36:23.503-07:00@Anonymous 11:09
Yawnn indeed! We on earth are yo...@Anonymous 11:09<br /><br />Yawnn indeed! We on earth are you reading anything at all... since you know it all already.<br /><br />You are one of those typical unsophisticated boors that can only see equivalences, not the subtle differences that mark changes in approach and policy. <br /><br />"Oh, the Chinese have always done reverse engineering"... My friend, that's what the article says! Only, the Chinese professor articulates how this reverse engineering is moving on to different forms of innovation.<br /><br />By the way, I'm not packaging anything here. This is a straight news report that describes an analysis of how the Chinese defence industry is moving ahead.<br /><br />But let it be... forget it. You simply won't get it. You just know too much already.Broadswordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13076780076240598482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-15600670807130251752011-07-18T06:06:59.766-07:002011-07-18T06:06:59.766-07:00@Ajai sir
If you remember sometime back i had wri...@Ajai sir<br /><br />If you remember sometime back i had written in response to one of your articles that <br /><br />'India needs to enhance its abilities to reverse engineer weapon systems.' <br /><br />to which you said 'first we need to figure out our priorities and enhance our capabilities before trying to reverse engineer weapon systems'<br /><br />Now you yourself have published an article how China has taken reverse engineering to new heights.<br /><br />In this context I would like to say a few things related to this topic<br /><br />1. There have been reports that IAF wants to put a serving officer in charge of HAL, I think it will definately help in enhanced co-ordination and faster target achievement.<br /><br />2. India Army is set to give out FICV contract to private sector firms, this will enhance private sector participation in defense sector. <br /><br />For example, they can be asked to develop on the lighter FICVs with improvisation like outfitting them with 105 mm IFG that will give the APC heavy firing capability, a big advantage in mountainous areas of Sikkim, Arunachal, Himachal or J&K where Arjun, T-72, T90S/M cant operate properly since the roads or terrain are unsuitable. <br /><br />3. DRDO labs can do simple reverse engineering work such as developing the Smerch 12 cell battery into a 8 cell battery on a 24 ton Tata TEL autoloader. <br /><br />IAF is looking for Cluster Bombs and Bunker Busters, either we ask for TOT or we can work on them or develop a similar by involving pvt co or engineering colleges. <br /><br />4. We must stop going to international market to buy small spare parts, and promote companies like IPCL of Bhavnagar which manufactured India’s first Multi Mode Radar for Tejas aircraft and ask them to develop more products indigenously. <br /><br />5. We must allow pvt co or even DPSU to source men, materials from around the world (Russian, German, Americans) to develop weapon systems.<br /><br />6. Above all we must stop buying steel from foreign countries.<br /><br />Adopting these simple steps can help India develop much faster than China because their base is weapons development is copy and steal whereas our base in weapons development is ingenuity. <br /><br />awaiting your response<br /><br />thanks<br /><br />Joydeep Ghoshjoydeep ghoshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00038225081192821456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-79197905739051100952011-07-18T06:04:05.183-07:002011-07-18T06:04:05.183-07:00Great article! I would just add as a closing comm...Great article! I would just add as a closing comment that the interests of the DPSUs are not necessarily those od the country or its defence needs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-83626474834196259042011-07-18T04:14:55.684-07:002011-07-18T04:14:55.684-07:00So right, DPSU's need to inverse the ratio of...So right, DPSU's need to inverse the ratio of 90% chest beating and 10% results. I also loved the dragons approach of having a true result oriented defense industry, unlike sam's.<br /><br />However the dragon is known to make its adversaries complacent by putting out stories following acheivements, that they are still way behind. It would not do India any good if it fell into this trap of how far behind they are compared to the US.<br /><br />Your blog has come a long way from the F35 homilies. Your last two stories made enjoyable reading.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-9156706692210269352011-07-18T03:11:04.518-07:002011-07-18T03:11:04.518-07:00Col. Shukla -
Fantastic article.
Sadly, no one...Col. Shukla - <br /><br />Fantastic article. <br /><br />Sadly, no one is paying heed, or thinking of doing anything corrective. We will continue buying, and we will not innovate, unless something really disruptive happens to the deeply embedded thinking and philosophy and practices amongst our bureaucrats and PSU managements. <br /><br />China will keep pulling ahead, while we talk bull.Heberiannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-54667061622512723852011-07-18T02:59:32.952-07:002011-07-18T02:59:32.952-07:00India's Technological strength will increase B...India's Technological strength will increase BUT VERY SLOWLY <br /><br />THIRTY years from now we would be self reliant Not before that <br /><br />It is not possible for India to be exactly like China <br /><br />In India all top engineering talent joins <br />1.Private Corporate sector by doing MBA <br />2. goes to USA<br />3. Joins Civil services , Foreign banks <br /><br />Remaining talent joins companies like L & T ,Reliance etc <br /><br />SO govt R& D setor like DRDO ISRO DAE have to take the bottom half of the talent pool <br /><br />Then you have attrition in Govt R&D sector <br /><br />So Forget about China In Hindi we say <br /> " JO HAI SO HAI " it means What is there is there <br /><br />We must be happy that Atleast today we have the dollars to IMPORT WEAPONSAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com