tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post819257934897444541..comments2024-03-23T09:25:42.029-07:00Comments on Broadsword by Ajai Shukla - Strategy. Economics. Defence.: In torpedo delay lies opportunity to build domestic industryBroadswordhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13076780076240598482noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-55855615555387879712024-01-21T02:28:14.988-08:002024-01-21T02:28:14.988-08:00Individuals aimin discover
g to reach their profes... Individuals aimin <a href="https://www.bisonbag.com/pouches/recyclable-pouches/" rel="nofollow">discover</a><br />g to reach their professional zenith must navigate a continuous cycle of learning, adapting, and innovating. discoverhttps://www.bisonbag.com/pouches/recyclable-pouches/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-34259946700284678062015-04-12T05:33:35.991-07:002015-04-12T05:33:35.991-07:00@ Anonymous 12:43
I am touched by your concern fo...@ Anonymous 12:43<br /><br />I am touched by your concern for Broadsword's reputation.<br /><br />Since you believe it is marred, why don't you go away and don't visit this blog. It has enough sensible people who understand the validity of an "Anonymous" comment that is plugging on behalf of a particular vendor.<br /><br />Good-bye!Broadswordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13076780076240598482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-72765695237715772022015-04-12T00:13:44.460-07:002015-04-12T00:13:44.460-07:00Broadsword's reputation will continue to be ma...Broadsword's reputation will continue to be marred by such reports based on misinformation 'fed'by aggrieved parties.In this case Atlas sullied its prospects some years ago by consistently refusing to provide its Hy Wt Torpedo for full scale user evaluation and interface certification by the OEM,in this case DCNS/Scorpene.The MOD/Project 75 must now take a conscientous whether to stay the course ans proceed with the selected (WASS)system or subject the Scorpene to continued unfortunate delays.Hopefully,better sense will prevail. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-16635161647834269742015-04-10T15:32:28.207-07:002015-04-10T15:32:28.207-07:00Shukla ji,
Again, I meant no offense. Just poking...Shukla ji,<br /><br />Again, I meant no offense. Just poking fun by being arm-chair conspiracy theorist while my simulations run in the background :) (What does a poor man to staring at screen at all the time!) <br /><br />I care less whether you are pro-anyone or anti-everyone. What I do know is you come up with well researched analysis that makes worth spending time to read. And yes, calling you pro-India is better way to describe you. I like your articles to the point that I take 'em and translate it for Gujarati audience. <br /><br />Kindly do not take comments personally. We are all pro-India dudes here :)<br /><br />Jay Hind!Deshdaazhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13072694845029489289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-62679136410659260982015-04-10T00:32:26.300-07:002015-04-10T00:32:26.300-07:00One problem with a proposed R&D/ToT deal with ...One problem with a proposed R&D/ToT deal with Atlas based on F21 is that F21 also involves DCNS and Thales, who are in a JV with WASS for light weight torpedoes... Thus seemingly liable under the "extra legal" ban against anything that Finmeccanica owns, just like NH90. Whoops.Kananoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-24548593658312564322015-04-09T22:38:56.304-07:002015-04-09T22:38:56.304-07:00Mr. Shukla, I am coming back to your comment that ...Mr. Shukla, I am coming back to your comment that DPP does allow single vendor procurement in "special cases", similarly if you will go back in history of past few months, the current Attorney General clearly pointed out that a situation where the procurement is critical due to National Security Interest and any fall out could mean huge security gaps, the procurement should continue. Examples being Rolls Royce / Rafael / IAI / IMI etc. FYI Rafael / IAI were investigated for years by CBI but due to lack of supporting information we are still working with them. <br /><br />Also do you believe that Indian MOD can go and pick single vendor situation just because "one writer" has written that Seahake is better than Blackshark? So according to you IN and all the concerned people in MOD are bunch of ignorant people having no Technical knowledge, then why you supported their decision on ITAS from Atlas? There you believe they were on the bulls-eye? Or why you think the S-70B from Sikorsky which is known to be a 70s Helicopter better than the NH-90, a project worth USD 1.5 billion (6000 crore for 16 Helicopter with a repeat option of 32 = 18000 crores). Your reply to my comment shocks me beyond doubt !!<br /><br />Also are you are aware that the Legacy left by Mr. VK Singh after TATRA issue is so pathetic that now the MOD and BEML are in a situation where the TATRA (now 100% Czech) are demanding 30% higher price than the price at with Mr. RR used to sell to India? Effectively the same truck and spares should have come 25% cheaper based on the analysis of the media how Mr. RR was making truck loads of money ??? So it is ok if the Czech's make more money (under the pretext that are OEMs) but not if the Indian was the owner.<br /><br />To scrap a critical project based on your analysis for scorpene project which has already cost us 24000 crore (6000 crore more than the planned outlay) and make our country mocked by PAK is better??? <br /><br />Your lame excuse that it's a stuck situation so let's drop it and start a fresh is not a solution. Yes unless you are on the advisory board of Atlast Marketing team. Re-starting would mean committee's to be formed (the decision on the committee formed for C-295 single vendor situation is yet to give it's reply 6 months have passed). Go through DPP, go through Finance Wing / MOF / DAC / CCS etc etc would require if best case 12 months to just issue single tender. Then opposition / claims & counter-claims. Then the hurricane task of PNC & CNC would begin which would take 12 - 20 months (Mr. Shukla 3 years have already passed we are now in 2018 and no sight of the contract, all subs are in the water but wow, they are being used for school transportation purposes).<br /><br />Shocked by our -ve attitude. Sometimes it's good to take a calculated decision for the greater good than to not take any decision at all. Current government has only put FINMECANICA projects on hold which are at final stages and not blanket ban. The government is pro-active in thinking, if they will be pro-active in their action is to be seen.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-76330511659675907222015-04-09T22:25:30.030-07:002015-04-09T22:25:30.030-07:00India would look foolish to deploy Scorpenes witho...India would look foolish to deploy Scorpenes without proper torpedoes...<br /><br />They should go immediately with Atlas Electronic Seahake or USA torpedoes through Foreign Military Sales program and also if they can transfer TOT and MOT...<br />India can do joint projects for next generation torpedoes...<br /><br />You can't wait for Black shark or Indian manufactured torpedoe...<br /><br />France will be able to change the interfaces easily...of course for a price...<br /><br />So do not delay anymore as Pakistan has better capabilities with AIP an dalso 8 more coming from China...<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-26932385309212924192015-04-09T22:22:56.973-07:002015-04-09T22:22:56.973-07:00It seems important to recall that the ban against ...It seems important to recall that the ban against Finmeccanica group companies is rather flimsily justified, both in terms of AgustaWestland specifically given the lack of due process or legal clarity in Indian government actions stemming from that case, and certainly in cases like this which only involve other companies held by Finmeccanica... So the entire application here of "de facto" "informal" non-legally required bans should certainly be open to questioning, rather then accepting it as "written in stone" fact to which every other factor must be accomodated. <br /><br />Nowhere in the article do you give a technical reason against the Black Shark torpedo or it's selection, and the comparison of customer base is obviously "apples to oranges", namely Black Shark torpedo customers vs. ALL Atlas Torpedo historic customers: Sea Hake ITSELF has only 6 customers, with one (Israel) having it's submarines paid for by Germany and thus hardly a customer with free choice... So Sea Hake and Black Shark are in fact equivalent in terms of customer selections. Also left unmentioned is that Pakistan operates Sea Hake, and obvious fact to consider when potentially operating the same type, even if not necessarily definitive.<br /><br />The real issue here is the proposed linking between procurement of torpedoes for current needs, and tech transfer/development aid in future torpedo developments. Such linkage just does not really exist, because it is nearly immaterial whether the current provider also signs a ToT agreement, or another provider signs that agreement. Going ahead with ToT/JV for future development does not remove the CURRENT need for torpedoes, which Black Shark fulfills with no technical complaints. If Indian Navy cannot use it's new submarines for the purpose designed because they lack torpedoes, then it may as well sell them. Get real on what is being proposed here.<br /><br />PERHAPS one can posit that Atlas may be a better ToT partner for future R&D/JV, but that JV can be tendered in a normal fashion and Atlas' merits may be judged objectively there... Although even this topic was presented in a rather slanted way focusing on WASS' dependence on suppliers, obviously overlooking that Atlas' next-gen F21 torpedo is also relying on French companies DCNS and Thales, putting it in the same boat as WASS. The concept that a less successful supplier would be MORE motivated to ensure a strong ToT project also seems to escape the remit of the article.Kananoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-65001926164776017762015-04-09T22:03:22.034-07:002015-04-09T22:03:22.034-07:00can't recover a torpedo... after an exercise.....can't recover a torpedo... after an exercise... forget making... a heavy one...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-27390556837800326852015-04-09T21:02:27.472-07:002015-04-09T21:02:27.472-07:00INS. Kamorta was commissioned without Barak 1!!
I...INS. Kamorta was commissioned without Barak 1!! <br />INS. Kolkata was commissioned without Barak 8!!<br />Now INS. Kalvari will be commissioned without torpedo !! <br />Whats wrong in it ???Parthasarathihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07701421388606152443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-21863596085228904132015-04-09T19:44:12.476-07:002015-04-09T19:44:12.476-07:00@ Deshdaaz
People like you come to read me, despi...@ Deshdaaz<br /><br />People like you come to read me, despite your paranoias about my alleged "anti-BJP" slant. That must mean something.<br /><br />Since when has suggesting a strategic approach towards torpedo tech development, which involves scuttling a UPA-decided procurement from WASS, which the BJP has endorsed, constitute being anti-BJP?<br /><br />I call it being pro-India. But you're welcome to your opinion.<br /><br /><br />Broadswordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13076780076240598482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-75199938841167166322015-04-09T18:12:26.456-07:002015-04-09T18:12:26.456-07:00"You seems to have switched sides quite fast ...<b>"You seems to have switched sides quite fast on this subject, as you yourself had written how important it was to finalize the torpedo contract in May 2014 as due to mere 1000 - 1200 crores the entire 24000 core invested in Scorpene would go waste. Now you want the MOD to rethink the entire program 13 months before the launch of the 1st Submarine, thus pushing the entire program back by 3 - 4 years. Is it National</b> Interest???<br /><br />Mr. Shukla,<br />Just as our @anon friend, I am also your long time follower/admirer. With stuck situation, how we will get operationally ready is very valid question but that does-not explain your ping-pong attitude questioned by @anon.<br /><br />I take it that with Saffornites in power AND having bad blood with General VK Singh (due to past articles/utterances) PLUS his publicly known disregard/disapproval of center-of-right party, Mr. Shukla is now desperately aiming to win some hearts with his "in-house" development push articles such as this one in vain attempt to get more "Defense bites" which came easy earlier?!<br /><br />Mean no offense, but that's just my theory.Deshdaazhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13072694845029489289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-76644590531733341552015-04-09T07:25:03.258-07:002015-04-09T07:25:03.258-07:00The US has supplied Mk-48 torpedoes to its allies....The US has supplied Mk-48 torpedoes to its allies. Not sure if it is offered to India.<br /><br />cujoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-59337882006579848482015-04-09T05:43:18.594-07:002015-04-09T05:43:18.594-07:00So India has scorpene with no torpedo & underw...So India has scorpene with no torpedo & underwater brahmos with no submarine. Very soon the entire Indian Ocean will be a playground for the Shang class, Jin class, Song class, Yuan class submarines & the scorpenes will sail with no torpedo. God Bless India.<br /><br />Anyways thanks for the comparison between the 2 torpedos. Also there must be comparison to see how black shark or seahake torpedoes perform against modern torpedo countermeasure systems.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-22348640687075535432015-04-09T02:19:38.173-07:002015-04-09T02:19:38.173-07:00@ Anonymous 11.39
Yes, the DPP does allow for &qu...@ Anonymous 11.39<br /><br />Yes, the DPP does allow for "single vendor" procurements when justified.<br /><br />I take it that your solution is to sit on the current situation where the selector vendor has been banned? That will get you operationally ready?Broadswordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13076780076240598482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-4078068853166017972015-04-09T01:33:25.631-07:002015-04-09T01:33:25.631-07:00Wonderful analysis. I remember reading somewhere t...Wonderful analysis. I remember reading somewhere that Atlas Elektronik was even eager to participate in Make in India campaign while supplying its Seahecht torpedoes. <br /><br />Whether MoD and IN would agree is a billion dollar question.Krishnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-15893518597362077942015-04-08T23:09:38.312-07:002015-04-08T23:09:38.312-07:00Dear Mr. Shukla, I have been a big admirer of your...Dear Mr. Shukla, I have been a big admirer of your work and was really pleased to realize that you were one of the very writers who could relate to the issues currently faced by Indian MOD and the Indian Manufacturing setup. You seems to have switched sides quite fast on this subject, as you yourself had written how important it was to finalize the torpedo contract in May 2014 as due to mere 1000 - 1200 crores the entire 24000 core invested in Scorpene would go waste. Now you want the MOD to rethink the entire program 13 months before the launch of the 1st Submarine, thus pushing the entire program back by 3 - 4 years. Is it National Interest??? Do you think the Indian system allows the MOD to drop a project and then without officially allowing competitive bid to go "single vendor" who is keen to partner with best technology?? The MOD has even failed in taking decision on C-295 as it turned out to be single bid on a competitive tender !!! Moreover let's assume Atlas is able to partner on paper with DRDO or some private player and is cleared by MOD, do you think it is a stitching job that can be transferred over-night? Let me explain you a simple fact, the time required for a simple "Machining component" to be cleared from design to prototype to serious production would take 20 months (if you don't believe me, then please do your homework by calling TAAL or Dynamatic Technologies). You are talking about equipment which would work under tremendous environmental pressures (Varunastra cannot dive to such depths due to this very in-capability and mind you, varunastra is not machined by DRDO in-house but also outsourced to same vendors TAAL / Dynamatic etc just like BDL). Every one is thinking today in India it is simple "cut-copy-paste", no Defence is not so easy cake walk. The French program you just mentioned is still at development stage and the reasons of switch from WASS to Atlas were different and not technological. You blame the Indian MOD for shenanigans, it is very clear your article goes against the country's national security interest. In the end what you mentioned before will happen, delays and blame game like always and suffering will allow DCNS to raise more costs. I am sure you are aware that whenever the DCNS employee's need salary hike, DCNS raises an Invoice on the Indian MOD. You are right by delaying you will help the French / Germans and may be their respective partners hike up the price but not INDIA. And in the end to probably save 100 cores India would spend 2000 crores more (very usual play). The make in India SAGA continues while the Indian Army at Siachen still buys 100 crore worth of Extreme weather clothing from Europe delivered via CHINESE factories as the stuff is so critical and "top technology" that it can't be made in Indian OFB or private industry, but simple technology like Torpedo or Submarines can be made in our backyards. As airbus said in Feb, it's not "made in India", it's Shame in India. The current government is right in their mood, but they should have started more pragmatically and intelligently, push for "all luxury goods made in India" or 100% duty, use that fund to improve infrastructure in India, and like this climb the Industrial Ladder. In the end we will make a mockery of everything like always as we lack proper planning and self-respect as Indian Citizen!! Jai HIND !!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-73782076189589320482015-04-08T21:05:48.890-07:002015-04-08T21:05:48.890-07:00what a farce. only the indian MOD can send submari...what a farce. only the indian MOD can send submarines out to war with no torpedos. idiots.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com