tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post4055295362258608231..comments2024-03-28T05:22:10.255-07:00Comments on Broadsword by Ajai Shukla - Strategy. Economics. Defence.: INS Vikrant’s first victory: being built from Indian steelBroadswordhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13076780076240598482noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-84000755149173191922013-08-27T03:39:17.359-07:002013-08-27T03:39:17.359-07:00Actually Shuklaji there is no "secret formula...Actually Shuklaji there is no "secret formula" of warship grade steel. Those are just ruses for these PSU guys to get approval for huge sums of public money for Russian consultants getting Russian commissions in return. It's about getting the processes right to get the desired chemical composition. SAIL has consulted small private sector companies in India too. Their are many experts in India's private sector. Frankly, many of these SAIL PHDs of metallurgy and IITwallahs in PSUs are mere theoreticians. An ounce of experience is worth more than tonnes of theory. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-34833250315987429182013-08-10T13:04:47.081-07:002013-08-10T13:04:47.081-07:00Amol@Mumbai
I am with you.
Baring a few IIT-ians, ...Amol@Mumbai<br />I am with you.<br />Baring a few IIT-ians, rest are just a drain and the products are high-end coolies for companies like Facebook, Google, Amazon etc that too at operational side not in the innovative side. Google has bought 100s of companies, how many were started by IIT-ians may be less than 5%. Reason is IIT-ians even after 60yrs. can barely think out of the box.<br />You are talking about Carbon and refinement. Let us take plain software languages which just require creativity, out-of-box thinking and coding. How much is from these elite? You'll hear zero. On the other hand if you give them a product they will refine it using their algorithms. Earlier they did it in service companies like Infosys and now moved up the chain into companies like Google, FB etc.<br />Reason is the rote and Kumon style learning keeps their right-brain under developed. Until then our rural and less funded colleges will beat IIT's hands down in creativity.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-53413859356195404232013-08-10T12:06:34.804-07:002013-08-10T12:06:34.804-07:00Amol @ Mumbai:
"US Electrical Engineering gr...Amol @ Mumbai:<br /><br /><i>"US Electrical Engineering grad working in software research"</i><br /><br />Ah, unique creds - I see you didn't mention your IIT background till an afterthought. Don't see how that gives you insight into R&D in India. You know, others too have gone to colleges in India and abroad, know what our problems are, but don't just sit back and pass comments and denigrate ourselves. Oh, speaking of 'ass-licking' (sorry Col sir, just quoting this guy), I knew a guy driven to suicide simply 'cause this thesis was not approved by prof over many attempts. Sounds like 3 Idiots? Happened in the esteemed US of A you glorify. So please don't generalize so much.<br /><br /><i>"- Indian leadership hasn't produced anything worthwhile in past more than 60 years. Do you really believe the fragmented national leadership is really capable of any vision other than turf-war politics? You are trusting the wrong people."</i><br />What have you done to right this - fighting keyboard wars? Good luck, then. There is one thing Indian leadership has provided in the last 60 years - keep the country together and somewhat secure under the circumstances. If people like you had your way, we would be 'ass-licking' not professors, but the dude sitting in Penn Ave.<br /><br /><i>"Anyway, my comments are not only directed at you, but in general to the unaware and ignorant people of India. Indians need to take their destiny in their own hands."</i><br />Thanks for referring to Indians as 'they' - shows where your priorities are and where you belong. Good luck, and stay away. Oh, and don't worry about reimbursing the money the GoI spent on your useless IIT education, consider it a gift.<br /><br />People like you are enough to keep us in a 'third world' and 'developing' mentality. Thank you very much. /sShyamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-70460849518376173752013-08-09T15:36:09.478-07:002013-08-09T15:36:09.478-07:00Grand achievements.Grand achievements.Mr. RAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-46015877912251237242013-08-09T13:09:42.416-07:002013-08-09T13:09:42.416-07:00To Anon @ 9 August 2013 22:59:
Let me confirm my ...To Anon @ 9 August 2013 22:59: <br />Let me confirm my credentials in brief. US Electrical Engineering grad working in software research. Previously worked at major Indian pvt. sector company in R&D. <br /><br />- As for your "Ghati" comments, its morons like you who dirty the waters!<br /><br />- Budget: Do you think pouring money = Research? I am sure you are not from R&D background. Fundamental research needs Math and scientific approach. Its productizing the research which needs money. How much money do you think Shockley needed for materials to create a transistor?<br /><br />- IITs: I have studied at IIT and hence speaking from experience not just mine but of fellow students.<br /><br />- Indian leadership hasn't produced anything worthwhile in past more than 60 years. Do you really believe the fragmented national leadership is really capable of any vision other than turf-war politics? You are trusting the wrong people.<br /><br />Anyway, my comments are not only directed at you, but in general to the unaware and ignorant people of India. Indians need to take their destiny in their own hands. <br /><br />Finally, I appreciate the work done by SAIL and others in producing what is needed by the forces. I don't deny that. However, there is a distinct pattern to follow others (international research), than to lead from front in research. Why can't Indians invent some new materials domestically, better than ABA steel, why does it need to be even Steel, use Carbon! That's where the public sector fails in research. They lack the mandate for pursuing pure research from which flows technology. Until this thinking doesn't change and priorities are not put straight, India will remain a developing nation. And all of Ajai-ji's and others hopes of modernizing the forces will remain but an elusive mirage. Amol @ mumbainoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-57735876480252115232013-08-09T10:29:29.029-07:002013-08-09T10:29:29.029-07:00amol @ mumbai - aap gadhe hai.. looks like some gh...amol @ mumbai - aap gadhe hai.. looks like some ghati speaking out in frustration doing some shitty work.. I would like to know your credentials and work.. <br /><br />Do you see the budget of MIT research vs. IIT research.. Things would take time with the leadership which india got, nevertheless talking about shitty state of gunda politics in Mumbai.. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-87398576593458605642013-08-09T07:41:36.259-07:002013-08-09T07:41:36.259-07:00Good step forward. Now for HAL and DRDO to start r...Good step forward. Now for HAL and DRDO to start really working rather than just being a nut and bolt company. And also for Colonle Ajai Shukla to call a spade a spade and admit that these two organisations have been letting down our Air Force and Army time and again!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-54686937717558819542013-08-09T07:03:58.376-07:002013-08-09T07:03:58.376-07:00Hello Amol @ Mumbai!
Man... take a chill pill an...Hello Amol @ Mumbai!<br /> Man... take a chill pill and drink some cold nimbu pani!! That will make you feel better. Maybe then you will not generalize so much :-))Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-34432807861481909022013-08-08T23:09:37.088-07:002013-08-08T23:09:37.088-07:00It is a good sign that we are making warship grade...It is a good sign that we are making warship grade steel and we already know the chemical composition. Now can't we take a step further and try to better the steel. (increasing the tensile strength and hardness.) <br />Secondly indigenization of Naval ships were started long time back. (Remember Godavari class frigates.) where as we (army and airforce) are very lethargic to induct quality researched product like Arjun or Tejas. Reasons are best known to them. Parthasarathihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07701421388606152443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-7601036158575528132013-08-08T18:10:40.393-07:002013-08-08T18:10:40.393-07:00All the IIT's and IISc PhDs and Grads are basi...All the IIT's and IISc PhDs and Grads are basically just show-offs. Most use American software, hardware to perform their simulations and Google to "plagiarize" their thesis work. The professors are the most arrogant bastards, comparable to Brahmins of yore! If you are good at ass-licking, you will get your PhD defense passed easily, without much questioning. With such fake Indian PhDs at dime-a-dozen, ordinary Indians (non-PhDs) wonder why Indians can't make World-class products. And unfortunately Ajai'ji believes, what the PSUs (managed by most useless people) tell him. Ajai'ji, if you really want to know how research is done, take a look at MIT or Stanford and other US universities. How their model of research is based and done, and then compare that with what IITs and IISc cannot do. Its this model of research that attracts Indian grads to USA and become successful. So stop believing Indian academics without internationally proven credentials. Sorry my writing might seems very critical of our esteemed educational institutes, but somebody needs to tell the "King is not wearing any clothes". Yet they boast of their prowess. If they are so adept, then why doesn't it show in their output. Same goes for our politics, they are without any coherent policies. Hence the circus being played out between MoD and forces. Policy doesn't mean a specification paper, but it means a vision! Unfortunately the only Indian with vision, Dr. Kalam, is now relegated to the side-lines. Instead our current President is a total Ass-licker. Amol @ Mumbainoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-88444282912176837042013-08-08T15:19:24.379-07:002013-08-08T15:19:24.379-07:00Dear Ajaiji,
I think you have slightly got it wron...Dear Ajaiji,<br />I think you have slightly got it wrong when you said-<br /><i>Russia provided the chemical formula of warship steel called ABA, but the challenge in steelmaking is to translate science into manufacture.</i> I guess we are so happy procuring scientific know-how from other countries, that we sometimes do not appreciate how hard it is to do science. Hence I get a feeling that many who read defense blogs feel that things like rocket launches just happens when you put people together and paying them. The trial and error process involved is frustrating, time taking and filled with failures. When it is brushed aside with impunity it is demeaning. Research is not like Harry Potter's wand waving.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-28996468092375116392013-08-08T11:35:29.264-07:002013-08-08T11:35:29.264-07:00Great Article Shuklaji.
Can you pls cover the Arj...Great Article Shuklaji.<br /><br />Can you pls cover the Arjun Mk 2 also?<br /><br />Ohhh come on, you're a tankman!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-49599124310151976182013-08-08T08:41:32.183-07:002013-08-08T08:41:32.183-07:00Hi Ajay, A great news for Indians. Can you also re...Hi Ajay, A great news for Indians. Can you also reply to some comments like the one about ABA composition supplied by russia while it is available in the netAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-34645649294567691242013-08-08T08:13:13.160-07:002013-08-08T08:13:13.160-07:00what does this process innovation mean for commerc...what does this <b>process innovation</b> mean for commercial ship building, you know the super tankers and such large vessels?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-43004750385519405412013-08-08T07:10:50.951-07:002013-08-08T07:10:50.951-07:00@ Anonymous
You, of course, know everything. And ...@ Anonymous<br /><br />You, of course, know everything. And in your world, making warship grade steel is easy as jam.<br /><br />The people at SAIL, DRDO, the Indian Navy and Essar Steel, who have productionised warship grade steel with what they say is great difficulty are just talking rubbish.<br /><br />Actually, I think I'll listen to them rather than to some guy who posts anonymously on blogs.Broadswordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13076780076240598482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-32264005233218522013-08-08T04:38:48.578-07:002013-08-08T04:38:48.578-07:00Ahhh. Shuklaahhhhh! . Writing fiction now about Ru...<b>Ahhh. Shuklaahhhhh!</b> . Writing fiction now about Russians giving "formula" for ship quality steel called "ABA". Now when "ABA" actually stands for <b>American Bureau of Shipping</b> Grade A , commonly abbreviated as AB/A steel, how can the Russians who have their OWN standards called GOST (that is the Roman literal of the Cyrillic) come up with ABA etc classifications ? <br /><br />Now, the specifications are freely available,from the standards body to everyone and his mother in law and the composition is no secret either, it has been known for god knows how long. A simple google search will give you the composition , even if you really don't put the steel in a mass spectrometer to get the exact percentages of each. The reason why no one made it in India until now,was it was <b>UNECONOMICAL </b> to do so. There was really no technical challenge in it , either in creating it or manufacturing it. Now that the Navy has a large number of ships under construction, they bit the bullet and decided it was worth the while to make it here and they did.<br /><br />That is the short point and the whole point. Now making it into a B grade Bollywood flick with "Secret Russian Formula" (for an American Specification ???? Ha .. haa..) and trying to paint a picture of heroic toiling in making it, is stretching things a bit, dont you think?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-33899199167384688982013-08-08T04:37:38.538-07:002013-08-08T04:37:38.538-07:00Its pains me that a country of 1.3 billion still h...Its pains me that a country of 1.3 billion still have to rely on others for basic formulas... Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-11808553940955883932013-08-08T02:12:21.496-07:002013-08-08T02:12:21.496-07:00The article is very informative and previously I d...The article is very informative and previously I didn't have much idea about what special type of steel required for warships. Good to hear a PSU is delivering. Still there remains space for further innovation when it comes to stealthiness of steels.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-86904318987426854792013-08-08T00:55:14.739-07:002013-08-08T00:55:14.739-07:00Great News Sir, Would like to see how things actua...Great News Sir, Would like to see how things actually turn out when she finally goes to sea and launches an aircraft......RShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05783738907843226495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-8850335603992914172013-08-08T00:36:39.378-07:002013-08-08T00:36:39.378-07:00sir, what happened to kaveri gas turbine engine, h...sir, what happened to kaveri gas turbine engine, has it been certified for naval applications or the research is going onAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-881610016213654452013-08-08T00:34:57.208-07:002013-08-08T00:34:57.208-07:00iits r total waste of money all that talent brough...iits r total waste of money all that talent brought nothing to the nation for past 60 yearsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-25628229644858270402013-08-07T23:41:46.475-07:002013-08-07T23:41:46.475-07:00@ Anonymous 09:38
What on earth has does a linear...@ Anonymous 09:38<br /><br />What on earth has does a linear particle accelerator got to do with making warship grade steel for the navy? DRDO is not into particle physics research, last I checked. The Navy wont be shooting Higgs-Boson particles at our enemies any time soon.Ranadipnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-5611719058227746172013-08-07T23:00:10.475-07:002013-08-07T23:00:10.475-07:00Why is India going for steel submarines when even ...Why is India going for steel submarines when even the Russians prefer Titanium ?? <br /><br />A Titanium sub can dive deeper, is more resistant to wear and tear and has fewer problems in the long run and is lighter giving the submarine more speed from a power plant. <br /><br />Further building up expertise in Titanium welding will be essential if India want to be a serious naval power. <br /><br />The draw backs may include high cost of Titanium and some troubles with the casting and welding but the price is definitely worth the reliability and robustness desired for our second strike nuclear facilities. Mazonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-35490027352463728652013-08-07T21:33:30.656-07:002013-08-07T21:33:30.656-07:00Indian steel was used earlier as well but for the ...Indian steel was used earlier as well but for the repairs of our ships. There was a big price to pay for that some years ago. <br /><br />I sincerely hope that those issues have been sorted out and it is not that twenty odd years later, old lessons have been forgotten. In our system, that seems to happen all too frequentlyBrijeshnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8726844009873922462.post-68193809571233596872013-08-07T21:08:15.900-07:002013-08-07T21:08:15.900-07:00Without a basic linear particle accelerator, our D...Without a basic linear particle accelerator, our DRDO fools have to go around asking for "formula" to make novel materials. What a waste of PhDs! Also what a waste of universities such as IITs and IISc. All useless, when it comes to real research.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com